Sondors THIN overhaul.

[DIABOLUS 47]

Third wave of parts came in:

Not much I can do for the moment. I'm still waiting on my tire liners so I can't install my tubes until then. The grips I ordered were rejected by customs so I had to order a different pair which I think will fit better with the BMX theme I have going on. Also have to buy a small Dremel tool. I'm going to try and remove the stripped front rotor bolts myself.

[Reddy Kilowatt 401]

That Stem looks Bullet Proof. Ask for the smallest Easy-Out at your closest Good Hardware Store, that will just size smaller than the screw shank on those rotor screws, although I have an idea you're already headed here: 

That's just the kind of problem that is what Bonding-with-your-Ride, is all about. The love and care of your eBike. It's the journey. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Tabletteer

[DIABOLUS 47]

New parts came in the mail today:

Was finally able to finish mocking up my handlebars. I used some foam tape on the LCD bracket so it would clamp firmly to the 7/8" diameter crossbar.

I already placed an order for the Sondors Thin suspension fork, so that will hopefully be on its way to me at some point. Hope it doesn't take too long. I don't want to cut any of my new brake or shifter cables to length until I have to longer suspension fork installed. Once the new fork is installed and the cables cut to length I can spend some time routing them properly and tie them in place for a cleaner look.

My steerer tube currently sticks up slightly above the BMX stem so it's not tightened down properly. I could cut the tube down, but I really would rather leave the original fork intact and cut down the tube on the suspension fork instead. So this bike will remain unrideable for a bit longer.

Also waiting on my bicycle pump to come in. Once that arrives I can install my tire liners, wheel tape, and reinstall the rear end of the bike. Haven't ordered my 56T crankset yet, still trying to spread out these purchases. Just this month alone I've had over $450 going out just for this overhaul.

Edited October 28, 2016 by DIABOLUS

[DIABOLUS 47]

Rear end is finally back together. Got my freewheel switched out and wheel tape, tire liners, and Presta tubes installed on both wheels.

Ready to order my crankset. Also can measure and cut my rear brake line. Can't do the front line until my suspension fork ships, whenever that will be...

Edited October 31, 2016 by DIABOLUS

[DIABOLUS 47]

Crankset and tire pump finally came in... 56T crankset is a beast compared to the stock unit.

Derailleur and crankset installed. Need to get an 8mm allen socket so I can torque it down properly. Installed longer bolts on the derailleur and adjusted them so the range of movement aligns perfectly with the smallest and largest gears.

Pedals and chain installed. Currently have 130 links installed as a reference point for chain adjustment. When combining the two chains I had an issue with links seizing but I was able to loosen them up and the crank now spins freely without skipping.

Waiting on a Dremel tool to come in so I can cut my shifter and rear brake cables. Cant do the front until my suspension fork comes in, which I'm still waiting on. No word yet from Sondors on that order. Riding position feels good with the slammed stem and BMX bars. Can't wait to get this thing back on the road!

Edited November 9, 2016 by DIABOLUS

[DIABOLUS 47]

Got my Dremel tool in and I've been cutting my rear lines to length. Didn't realize until I was setting up by shifter cable that using the left side shifter for the rear derailleur means it will work in reverse; pulling the shifter cable (moving it toward the "+" direction) will actually pull the chain onto the larger cog, which means it will actually be downshifting. In its neutral state it springs outward, toward the smallest (highest) gear.

Crunching some gear ratios real quick:

Stock ratio = 40:16 = 2.5

Using my 56T chainring and my 16-19-22 freewheel I get the following ratios:

56:22 = 2.55

56:19 = 2.95

56:16 = 3.50

So my lowest gear is comparable to the stock ratio, with two higher gears for higher speeds. Exactly what I was hoping for.

Cut a slot into one of my stripped front rotor bolts, and the damn thing still won't budge. Going to take it to a shop and have them professionally removed. I'm done fighting with them.

No word yet on my suspension fork.

Edited November 19, 2016 by DIABOLUS

[DIABOLUS 47]

Got my suspension fork finally:

And cut my steerer tube down to size:

New front end installed:

Waiting on a new star nut to come in before I can tighten the headset in place. Clearance for the 160mm front rotor is very tight, but I should still be able to run a 203mm rotor as well. I should be getting that in the next few days. Once I confirm what size rotor I'll be running, I will cut my front brake cable to length.

Have to play around with the electrical cable routing. My left brake sensor cable was a few inches to short with the original routing I had envisioned. If I can find a 6" extension cable (if such a thing exists) it would leave me more than enough slack. Or I might relocate the LCD display from the crossbar to the lower part of the handlebars themselves. I haven't decided yet.

Does anyone have recommendations on what I can use to retain my rear axle assembly in the dropouts? With a derailleur installed I can no longer tension the rear end like on a stock Sondors.

[Reddy Kilowatt 401]

The chain tensioner is used to align the Axel , equal distant for both sides in the horizontal dropouts and keep drivetrain forces from pulling the Axel and wheel forward and slackening the chain, under heavy loads (Pedaling Forces). There is one member that actually mounted his backwards after their 3 Speed Conversion but that serves no real purpose. The chain forces keep the Axel and wheel from moving rearwards in the dropouts. The tensioner is not entirely necessary and I haven't seen anyone remount it, in the correct orientation, after their conversion. If someone has, I hope they share. I'm not sure where to find a torque specification for the Axel nuts but just keep yours tight with 1" of slack in your chain, between top to bottom. While pushing your chain up, lower chain, mid span and then pushing that same mid point down, along the chain stay. One inch between up location and down location. Ain't space shuttle science, so closes is close enough. If you can generate the force of a 800 pound gorilla when you pedal, check it often, you can usually just tell from looking if there is excessive chain sag. My original chain only lasted about 1000 miles before it had stretched beyond limits. Another thing you can check for that the bike shop has a gauge to measure. Just be careful not to over tighten that Axel nut, I've seen one broken Axel, that side is hollow. 

 

[DIABOLUS 47]

@Tabletteer when I press up or down on the lower part of the chain, the derailleur pivots inward, allowing me to move the chain much more than an inch in either direction.....?

EDIT: Keeping the derailleur fixed I currently have about 2" of travel between top and bottom positions....so should take out a link or two? Or just move the axle rearward a bit?

Edited December 1, 2016 by DIABOLUS

[Reddy Kilowatt 401]

Don't press that hard to move the derailleur. You should have enough slack in the chain to move it that inch...or so. If you don't, your chain is too tight. The "chain tensioner"  is really mis-named because there should not be any tension on the chain.

Edit: Yep, lets call that device the, chain fine adjustment ....ah...uh...adjuster. <]:-)

2nd Edit: 2 inches isn't going to hurt anything or throw the chain but as soon as you ride a bit with that new chain (didn't you say you bought new) it will stretch a little and you'll need to check it. 

3rd Edit: don't remove a link, unless your Axel is already at the far end of the drop out.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Tabletteer

[DIABOLUS 47]

Ah, ok. Checking it a little more delicately my tension is probably around 1.5" top to bottom before the adjuster wants to move. Axle is currently about 1/4" shy of the forward-most position. As always, your input is much obliged.

[DIABOLUS 47]

Installed my star nut in the steerer tube and got the front end all tightened up. Rode the bike to a local shop, where I was hoping they could extract the two stripped front rotor bolts. They didn't want to touch it, however, because it was a potentially time consuming job that they couldn't charge more than $10 - $20 for. So I'll be calling around to other shops to see if someone else will do it.

Bike rides great otherwise. The riding position with the BMX bars makes me feel like I'm 10 years old all over again. The front suspension fork is pretty stiff and doesn't compress noticeably, even with the lockout switched off. The low gear feels identical to the stock configuration; a little heavy, but still very possible to pedal in full manual mode if necessary. The two higher gears reduce the pedaling effort noticeably. Without putting any effort whatsoever, I can cruise at 20 mph easily in the high gear. Haven't tried going any faster because I don't have the use of my front brake at the moment. Once I get it sorted I'll be able to give it a proper shakedown run.

Edited December 8, 2016 by DIABOLUS

[alienmeatsack 103]

@DIABOLUS - Great to hear your overhaul is going well! I know I haven't posted here much due to life getting in the way but Im keeping up with your project! So glad you are enjoying the mods you've done so far!

And, please be careful at 20MPH, I was riding around there up until I broke my leg. I know you know how to be safe, just a friendly reminder from the guy who broke his leg at less then 10MPH.

And please share some pics of your progress, I am excited to see how it looks!

Cheers and Sondorsmojo to you!

r

[Reddy Kilowatt 401]

Diabolus wrote: "Installed my star nut in the steerer tube and got the front end all tightened up. Rode the bike to a local shop, where I was hoping they could extract the two stripped front rotor bolts. They didn't want to touch it, however, because it was a potentially time consuming job that they couldn't charge more than $10 - $20 for. So I'll be calling around to other shops to see if someone else will do it."

One problem we may face, is the disdain from some bike shops and bike riders and a prejudice against eBikes. Some purists' attitudes are that we are not worthy and are cheating.  http://tinyurl.com/eBikesArentWorthy

I heard a bike shop employee, remark during a phone call, "we work on any bike without a motors". 

In your case, it could have been beyond their skill level or the possibility that during an attempt to remove those screws they could damage your hub. Using an "easy out" (tool designed for such frozen screws & bolts) requires center drilling the screw.

Then the reverse twist "easy out" is threaded into the hole in a lefty loosey rotation. Sometimes the studed part of the screw is broken off during the attempt to extract it and the threaded part is left in the threaded hole, in this case, hub. Then the repair requires precision drilling out the hole and the thus contained broken stud and either rethreading the new hole for a larger screw or installing an helicoil and appropriate new screw. A very tedious and precise operation. 

There are procedural processes to help in the removal. Using penetrating oil and waiting for it to....penetrate. That may, MAY, help breakdown the "Lok-Tight" that is holding the screw. Likewise, heat from a soldering iron or a tiny well directed torch flame may also help in such extractions. I have used a tiny pair of Vice-Grips on just such disc screws but it depends is there is enough "meat", on those small dome head screws for the jaws of the V-Gs to get a bite. Sometimes a combination of all above procedures is successful. 

[Bruce Duttenhofer 0]

Would you please post a link to the crankset you bought.  Thanks!

[DIABOLUS 47]

Page 7 of the 3-Speed Conversion thread has all the conversion parts I used on my Thin:

On 6/15/2016 at 11:51 AM, JeffK said:

 

This is what I bought to do my 3sp conversion on my new Sondors Thin bike.

Derailleur  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014N4WQZA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Crank set with 56t chaining  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NZI8ZS8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Shifter with cables (used only the left side ) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XVPC7UW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Chain (had to add links from another one I had) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013C4JGU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

3 speed freewheel http://www.ebay.com/itm/351702755827?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Need cable housing, ties and a longer derailleur inside stop bolt- don't know the size

[DIABOLUS 47]

Got a local shop to remove the stripped bolts, and installed the larger rotor. It's a close fit, but there are no interference issues. The minor deflection of the rotor from caliper operation actually pushes the rotor inward, away from the fork. Cut my front brake line and shortened my rear brake line slightly. Went to dial in my front brake line when I discovered the cable pinch bolt on the front caliper is missing altogether. Double-checked all my parts and tools, and it's definitely missing. So I took the pinch bolt off the rear caliper to set the front end up for now. Also trimmed my shifter cable to length and put a crimp ferrule on the end.

[DIABOLUS 47]

Some shots I took just before another shakedown ride:

[Lyndon445 2]

Did you have to do any frame or fork modifications to fit the 203 rotors front and rear?

[DIABOLUS 47]

On 1/31/2017 at 8:15 PM, Lyndon445 said:

Did you have to do any frame or fork modifications to fit the 203 rotors front and rear?

No, the 203mm rotors fit without any modifications whatsoever. It's a damn tight fit when it comes to clearing the fork and the kickstand, but both rotors fit with about .100" clearance which is plenty. I've put plenty of miles on the bike since the conversion and have not had any issues with the rotors gouging the fork or frame.

Bike has been running great the last two months. The mechanical brakes are more than adequate so I doubt I'll be upgrading to hydraulic. The bike is just not as fast as I was led to believe it would be following the 3-speed conversion, so I don't see myself investing much more money into it, even when it comes to motor, controller, batteries, etc. 

If anything, I actually see myself converting the bike back to a single speed. I currently only use the tall gear all the time to get around. Was having some derailleur adjustment issues and the chain was jumping off the tall gear and jamming itself between the gear and the frame. Left it in the tall gear with the intention of adjusting the derailleur later, when I noticed I never felt like I needed to switch into my lower two gears. I've gotten used to the feel of the heavy gear, so I'll probably be switching to a single speed freewheel, shortening the chain and ditching the shifter/derailleur.

Another thought that's been bouncing around my head: I love my Sondors. It gets me places quickly and with minimal exertion. But it's damn heavy, and I don't feel comfortable leaving it unattended for more than even a minute or two. So there's a lot of places I can't go to with my Sondors and opt to walk instead. So I'm thinking about buying a dirty, cheap, used bicycle. Maybe a 20" BMX or a fixie. Something that costs no more than $50-$75, is covered with stickers, superficial rust, etc. that I can use as a backup transportation to the Sondors. The BMX would be nice to take onto the subway since it will be small and light. Probably leaning toward that style of bike.

[Reddy Kilowatt 401]

@Lyndon445 Installing larger rotors must be accompanied with the appropriate adapters for that size rotor and type mount of the caliper. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Tabletteer

[DIABOLUS 47]

9 hours ago, Tabletteer said:

@Lyndon445 Installing larger rotors must be accompanied with the appropriate adapters for that size rotor and type mount of the caliper. 

Yeah, I didn't specify, but you would need the adapters that correspond to the larger rotors. But aside from that, you don't need to do any modifications to the fork or frame itself.

[Lyndon445 2]

That's my fault for not being clear. Have the adapters on order. Wasn't sure if I needed to do any other modifications to fit 203s on the Thin

[Chad Lauterbach 5]

On 2/4/2017 at 12:02 AM, DIABOLUS said:

No, the 203mm rotors fit without any modifications whatsoever. It's a damn tight fit when it comes to clearing the fork and the kickstand, but both rotors fit with about .100" clearance which is plenty. I've put plenty of miles on the bike since the conversion and have not had any issues with the rotors gouging the fork or frame.

Bike has been running great the last two months. The mechanical brakes are more than adequate so I doubt I'll be upgrading to hydraulic. The bike is just not as fast as I was led to believe it would be following the 3-speed conversion, so I don't see myself investing much more money into it, even when it comes to motor, controller, batteries, etc. 

If anything, I actually see myself converting the bike back to a single speed. I currently only use the tall gear all the time to get around. Was having some derailleur adjustment issues and the chain was jumping off the tall gear and jamming itself between the gear and the frame. Left it in the tall gear with the intention of adjusting the derailleur later, when I noticed I never felt like I needed to switch into my lower two gears. I've gotten used to the feel of the heavy gear, so I'll probably be switching to a single speed freewheel, shortening the chain and ditching the shifter/derailleur.

Another thought that's been bouncing around my head: I love my Sondors. It gets me places quickly and with minimal exertion. But it's damn heavy, and I don't feel comfortable leaving it unattended for more than even a minute or two. So there's a lot of places I can't go to with my Sondors and opt to walk instead. So I'm thinking about buying a dirty, cheap, used bicycle. Maybe a 20" BMX or a fixie. Something that costs no more than $50-$75, is covered with stickers, superficial rust, etc. that I can use as a backup transportation to the Sondors. The BMX would be nice to take onto the subway since it will be small and light. Probably leaning toward that style of bike.

@DIABOLUS - Can you hit me with a link to the 203mm disc brakes you went with that worked on your Thin? Looking to upgrade mine soon too. Did you upgrade your bottom bracket?

[Reddy Kilowatt 401]

I installed  203mm front & 180mm rear because of the differential braking effectiveness of the F & R, on the Electric Black Lightning.Standard Practice.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MEIJUN-2pcs-Steel-MTB-Bike-Disc-Brake-Rotor-140mm-160mm-180mm-203mm-Mountain-Road-Folding-Bike/32558868173.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dUlffhT

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Disc-adapter-black-disc-adapter-dish-203mm-after-dish-180mm-f203r180-adapter/1521952838.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dUlffhT

     Reddy