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Sondors thin battery cut out.


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Hi all,

I just bought a Sondors Thin second hand, yesterday while I was riding it it appeared to be working fine until the battery died shortly into the ride. I charged the battery up fully this morning, making sure to do so correctly. After putting the battery in the frame, the lights indicating that the battery was charged on the throttle were all lit up. However when I engaged the throttle the battery cuts out, and will not turn back on until I charge it again, resulting in the same thing. I noticed that the furthest cable to the right connecting to the motor is not connected to anything, but couldn’t find where it would go to, could this have anything to do with it? Also the throttle cable, and both brake cables appear to be connected properly. Any help would be appreciated greatly! 
 

thanks 

jack

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What does the voltage measure on the battery with your multimeter, before then after it cuts out?

You can test the brake cut out switches, one by one, by unplugging the cables and seeing if power is restored. 
 

This sentence is too cryptic for me to understand. "I noticed that the furthest cable to the right connecting to the motor is not connected to anything, but couldn’t find where it would go to, could this have anything to do with it?"

1B12C797-0A52-4B68-84C5-5C919C27CFC4.jpeg.0fc4022e6b64f07503db62fdfe7233d6.jpeg

                  Reddy

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23 minutes ago, Reddy Kilowatt said:

What does the voltage measure on the battery with your multimeter, before then after it cuts out?

You can test the brake cut out switches, one by one, by unplugging the cables and seeing if power is restored. 

1B12C797-0A52-4B68-84C5-5C919C27CFC4.jpeg.0fc4022e6b64f07503db62fdfe7233d6.jpeg

                  Reddy

Hey Reddy thanks for the quick response!

So I tried disconnecting both brake wires and there didn’t appear to be any results from that. As for the multi meter, I don’t currently own one but can go pick one up in the morning. It is important to note however that the bike came with an extra battery which is doing the exact same thing when trying to run. This is a real head scratcher!

 

thanks,

jack 

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If both batteries give the same result then I’d suspect either the controller or the motor it self.  That being said to eliminate the batteries we need to know the voltage beginning and at cut out. Those are some of the oldest and lowest capacity batteries ever produced. 
Make sure the large Higo connector under the right chainstay is securely seated and is there any damage to the motor cable where it enters the motor axel?

1B12C797-0A52-4B68-84C5-5C919C27CFC4.jpeg.0fc4022e6b64f07503db62fdfe7233d6.jpeg

                  Reddy

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10 hours ago, Reddy Kilowatt said:

If both batteries give the same result then I’d suspect either the controller or the motor it self.  That being said to eliminate the batteries we need to know the voltage beginning and at cut out. Those are some of the oldest and lowest capacity batteries ever produced. 
Make sure the large Higo connector under the right chainstay is securely seated and is there any damage to the motor cable where it enters the motor axel?

1B12C797-0A52-4B68-84C5-5C919C27CFC4.jpeg.0fc4022e6b64f07503db62fdfe7233d6.jpeg

                  Reddy

Alright Reddy I’ll give my best shot to show what’s going on here.

image.thumb.jpeg.e021557ee793f71bb04591d48b2db764.jpeg

Here’s the Higo connector you were talking about, seems alittle bent but in tact!

 

image.thumb.jpeg.f66b3dfd90db956a57e3e238927b6d4f.jpeg

In addition to that, here’s the loose wire I mentioned earlier that I’m suspect about. Let me know if this is supposed to be like that (I’m assuming not)

To fill you in with more specifics I tried to start the bike again today and I think it may be helpful to mention that when I press the throttle, the bike gives a tiny thrust and shuts down. Almost like a blown fuse. 
 

As for the multimeter, I will be going to pick one up today in hopes that I can pinpoint the issue. I’d love to be able to find a fix, all the bike shops in SoCal seem to be backed up for the foreseeable future. Anyways thanks again Reddy for the help! Let me know if anything strikes you here

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In the second picture,  that capped Higo connector, is for adding the LCD screen. But in that same picture, to the right underneath the right chain stay is the lg Higo connector that connects the Controller to the Motor. 
Lowe’s or Home Depot sells inexpensive Multimeters when you are buying one buy some cable ties to replace the ones your going to remove to check inside the lg Higo connector for bad, burnt, broken or bent pins (the big bad 4 B’s) Careful, don’t twist that connector and check for moisture inside too. 
In the first picture the motor cable exiting the motor axel looks fine but that can get damaged in a fall on that side.
Make sure the Pass Magnet Wheel and Sensor behind the Chain Ring are making contact thruout it’s rotation. Make sure that the cable from it is correctly plugged into the controller cable.

If the batteries both check out, I’m Putting my money on a bad controller but the only way to check the motor is to open up the case. Does the motor turn freely forwards and backwards with out any resistance, clicking or scraping noise?  If you had an LCD installed it might reveal  an error message as to the problem . 
F15BF769-FA64-43B6-81C9-18B3AD910CC7.jpeg.ec9298ae1f3166d07fe618901feadeab.jpeg
          REDDY
 

 

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Multimeter is on its way, will be here tomorrow!

This may also be something else to note, the battery level indicator will not get rid of this first red dot. If this means anything let me know, if not I will keep you posted with updates.image.thumb.jpeg.e9839708659996bae4198eeb327dd670.jpeg

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I’ve edited my previous post so review it again. 
That red LED, is always supposed to be lit on the battery and I’m 90% sure your batteries are not at fault. There are two many indicators showing they are fully charged but that doesn’t mean that the switch on each battery isn't bad [(intermittent)  unlikely] or the switch on the throttle is intermittent (you can carefully snap the cap off the throttle and physically search for a loose wire or burnt PCB (printed circuit board)  After the battery fails, how long does it take for the battery charger indicator light on the charger to turn from red to green?
This the percent charge for a 36V battery pack (approximate)

11645FBB-97CB-43F0-9E7A-89FF5E71DDC6.thumb.jpeg.7d32b28fe0aad5f538262523c50f0236.jpeg

Review all the videos pertaining to Thin on this page.

https://shop.sondors.com/pages/assembly

02BA55DE-07A1-4D2B-B3B2-B33402A2C76A.thumb.jpeg.fb20e496752fa2d85713dbcfcfdc4374.jpeg

‘Did a Bear Bite Your Thin?

51A52D33-8870-471C-A6C4-507D90641B6F.jpeg.a5504fabdc5aa72ab0d4730c2bd75fe1.jpeg

                                   REDDY

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1 hour ago, Reddy Kilowatt said:

I’ve edited my previous post so review it again. 
That red LED, is always supposed to be lit on the battery and I’m 90% sure your batteries are not at fault. There are two many indicators showing they are fully charged but that doesn’t mean that the switch on each battery is bad [(intermittent)  unlikely] or the switch on the throttle is intermittent (you can carefully snap the cap off the throttle and physically search for a loose wire or burnt PCB (printed circuit board)  After the battery fails, how long does it take for the battery charger indicator light on the charger to turn from red to green?
This the percent charge for a 36V battery pack (approximate)

11645FBB-97CB-43F0-9E7A-89FF5E71DDC6.thumb.jpeg.7d32b28fe0aad5f538262523c50f0236.jpeg

Review all the videos pertaining to Thin on this page.

https://shop.sondors.com/pages/assembly

02BA55DE-07A1-4D2B-B3B2-B33402A2C76A.thumb.jpeg.fb20e496752fa2d85713dbcfcfdc4374.jpeg

‘Did a Bear Bite Your Thin?

51A52D33-8870-471C-A6C4-507D90641B6F.jpeg.a5504fabdc5aa72ab0d4730c2bd75fe1.jpeg

                                   REDDY

Here’s a photo of inside the throttle,

image.thumb.jpeg.bda78636a9356c32f1f2bb3347d78872.jpeg
 

here’s another pic 

image.thumb.jpeg.8dbdffbbd679f4a04dbbc4c234a2c3ab.jpeg

So the previous owner said she thinks it’s the battery and has already ordered another one so I guess that’s worth a shot. 
 

As for what you mentioned in the edited portion of the last message, I’m not exactly sure what wire you are talking about can you try to explain like you are talking to a 5 year old (one that has never owned a second hand Sondors thin of course). Lol sorry for the confusion, thanks for the help!

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Oh also

the charged doesn’t go red before it goes green when plugging in the battery. Just right to green. 
 

I just saw another part that you edited too and was wondering if I can test if the motor is making any scraping noises without the motor running?
 

Edited by Jack443
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The only wire I mentioned was for you to look inside the throttle for one that could be problematic, not any particular red or green or blue wire. "or the switch on the throttle is intermittent (you can carefully snap the cap off the throttle and physically search for a loose wire or burnt PCB (printed circuit board). The throttle in your picture does not show any visibility damage. 
 
Of course you can only listen for noise from the motor turning it backwards by hand, unless you have a Sondors with reverse. 

The fact that the charger immediately switched off from charging (Showing Green) is another indication that the battery(s) are at full charge. The BMS (Battery management system)in the charger and the battery stop the process of charging immediately, so as not to overcharge the battery and burn down your house.  And you always plug the charger into the battery before plugging the charger into the wall outlet, RIGHT? That’s how you are doing it?
 Then  IT AIN’T THE BATTERY!


It is possible that the connector cable that connects the battery to the controller has a faulty wire or connection ‘in that connector’ on the cable. Here’s what’s obvious. Any current demand on the battery results in a momentary shutter of the motor but current can’t be maintained to operate the motor at its "high current draw" (flow of electricity, not a place in time) and something is failing at that point. That could be a frayed, loose or shorting wire, maybe inside one of the many possible failure points along the wires path from the battery to the motor. That is most likley, a failed component inside the controller. The other possibility is the same for a failed component inside the motor. That is more likely a possibility is the bike was operated in very wet conditions, ridden in water, like on a shore of lake or ocean surf, left outside in inclement weather or even in a un-heated garage in a climate with drastic heat and humidity changes where condensation can form and collect inside the motor, IE Rust, that is corrosive. Corrosion can cause all  kinds of electrical failures. Was it ridden in water or the surf?
I believe the 36V 8.7Ah batteries for that 2016 Thin are no longer available but superseded by a 48V version... better, if that’s what the previous owner has ordered ...But, IT AIN’T THE BATTERY, unless the owner has empirical  data supporting her assumption and I’m not seeing it after all the available info thus far. 
‘I’m not troubleshooting by guessing. It’s a process of elimination. I’ve done this my whole adult life, including on multimillion dollar military and civilian jet aircraft where problem solving had people’s lives hanging in the balance. On my own Grumman aircraft too. 
We are done for now. When you measure the batteries Voltage before and after the failure, we can completely eliminate the batteries. Both batteries. 

My synopsis at this point Leads me too the conclusion that you should replace the controller, buying it and the compatible LCD from Electrobikeworld.com ....And all and any, necessary extension cables necessary to connect the LCD. Communicate with them (Nick) on the telephone and make sure you explain you are replacing OEM parts on your 2016 Sondors Thin. 
The only way for you to try and eliminate the motor as the culprit is a visible inspection inside the motor. Since you didn’t answer query about the motors unpowered operation, I doubt you have displaced magnets but it’s still a possibility ... this show you what the inside of a 350Watt Bafang looks like and how to determine if it does. 
See https://sondorsforum.com/topic/1833-fix-grinding-sound-from-motor-loose-magnets/?tab=comments#comment-6025

That symptom also sounds like a Hall Sensor Failure, mostly caused by the lg Higo connector under the right chainstay not properly seated / connected and reported on the LCD as an error Code 03.  You Ain’t Got No LCD to report that!

https://sondorsforum.com/topic/2082-fold-x-7speed-weird-flashing-03-info-msg-on-lcd/?do=findComment&comment=7702

‘I’m too tired to edit out any mistakes
Over and Out 

Dismissed 

Smok’em if ya Gott’em. 

    IT AIN’T GOT NO GAS IN IT!

 

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On 9/18/2020 at 9:41 PM, Reddy Kilowatt said:

The only wire I mentioned was for you to look inside the throttle for one that could be problematic, not any particular red or green or blue wire. "or the switch on the throttle is intermittent (you can carefully snap the cap off the throttle and physically search for a loose wire or burnt PCB (printed circuit board). The throttle in your picture does not show any visibility damage. 
 
Of course you can only listen for noise from the motor turning it backwards by hand, unless you have a Sondors with reverse. 

The fact that the charger immediately switched off from charging (Showing Green) is another indication that the battery(s) are at full charge. The BMS (Battery management system)in the charger and the battery stop the process of charging immediately, so as not to overcharge the battery and burn down your house.  And you always plug the charger into the battery before plugging the charger into the wall outlet. 
 Then  IT AIN’T THE BATTERY!
It is possible that the connector cable that connects the battery to the controller has a faulty wire or connection in that connector on the cable. Here’s what’s obvious. Any current demand on the battery results in a momentary shutter of the motor but current can’t be maintained to operate the motor at its "high current draw" (flow of electricity, not a place in time) and something is failing at that point. That could be a frayed, loose or shorting wire, maybe inside one of the many possible failure points along the wires path from the battery to the motor. That is most likley, a failed component inside the controller. The other possibility is the same for a failed component inside the motor. That is more likely a possibility is the bike was operated in very wet conditions, ridden in water, like on a shore of lake or ocean surf, left outside in inclement weather or even in a un-heated garage in a climate with drastic heat and humidity changes where condensation can form and collect inside the motor, IE Rust, that is corrosive. Corrosion can cause all  kinds of electrical failures. 

I believe the 36V 8.7Ah batteries for that 2016 Thin are no longer available but superseded by a 48V version... better, if that’s what the previous owner has ordered ...But, IT AIN’T THE BATTERY, unless the owner has empirical  data supporting her assumption and I’m not seeing it after all the available info thus far. 
‘I’m not troubleshooting by guessing. It’s a process of elimination. I’ve done this my whole adult life, including on multimillion dollar military and civilian jet aircraft where problem solving had people’s lives hanging in the balance. On my own Grumman aircraft too. 
We are done for now. When you measure the batteries Voltage before and after the failure, we can completely eliminate the batteries. Both batteries. 

My synopsis at this point Leads me too the conclusion that you should replace the controller, buying it and the compatible LCD from Electrobikeworld.com ....And all and any, necessary extension cables necessary to connect the LCD. Communicate with them (Nick) on the telephone and make sure you explain you are replacing OEM parts on your 2016 Sondors Thin. 
The only way for you to try and eliminate the motor as the culprit is a visible inspection inside the motor. Since you didn’t answer query about the motors unpowered operation, I doubt you have displaced magnets but it’s still a possibility ... this show you what the inside of a 350Watt Bafang looks like and how to determine if it does. 
See https://sondorsforum.com/topic/1833-fix-grinding-sound-from-motor-loose-magnets/?tab=comments#comment-6025

That symptom also sounds like a Hall Sensor Failure, mostly caused by the lg Higo connector under the right chainstay not properly seated / connected and reported on the LCD as an error Code 03.  You Ain’t Got No LCD to report that!

https://sondorsforum.com/topic/2082-fold-x-7speed-weird-flashing-03-info-msg-on-lcd/?do=findComment&comment=7702

‘I’m too tired to edit out any mistakes
Over and Out 

Dismissed 

Smok’em if ya Gott’em. 

 

    IT AIN’T GOT NO GAS IN IT!

 

Hey Reddy,

 

So I took your advice and went ahead and purchased the new controller off of electric bike world. I left out the new display for now in order to try to save some money but will get around to it soon. I’m waiting for the component to arrive and was browsing the forum, and just noticed that the higo connector that connects the battery to the controller has some pushed in pins. Do you have any idea if this could cause an issue? Let me know.

 

image.thumb.jpeg.3803f67cb221889be4e12b238c52368a.jpeg

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  • Solution

Isn't that the Higo connector that connects the controller to the motor cable?
"What does the voltage measure on the battery with your multimeter, before then after it cuts out?"

As for an answer to your current question, Already covered that in an earlier post.

https://sondorsforum.com/topic/3310-sondors-thin-battery-cut-out/?do=findComment&comment=11968

In the second picture I had said, "But in that same picture, to the right underneath the right chain stay is the lg Higo connector that connects the Controller to the Motor. "
"Make sure the large Higo connector under the right chainstay is securely seated and is there any damage to the motor cable where it enters the motor axel?"

You made sure that it was secure ...Right?

4B826511-E51A-439F-B92C-A355BEF2E713.thumb.jpeg.502879ba9440c414b7fcb392cc4e8145.jpeg

 

Reddy

 

 

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