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Andi

Charge your Battery right

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Hi Andi, thanks for the clear instruction on the battery.  I successfully followed this procedure for about 7 cycles.  After that I have been unable to charge the battery at all, the light is always green no matter what order I apply the charger and power.  I even got a new charger, exact same behavior. I am thinking that there is something in the battery (chip/sensor) that sends a signal to the charger, but that is broken.  Any thoughts?  Is the battery just shot?  Both the original indicator and LCD indicate no charge on the battery. Thanks, Randy

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@Randy - Odd, it does sound like an issue with the battery itself. It should last for over 100 cycles, but things happen. Since you've already purchased a new charger and that didn't resolve it, I'd say get a replacement battery. And use this opportunity to get a higher capacity one perhaps?

Sorry you are having this issue. You might see if Sondors will replace it (doubtful but worth a shot).

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Thanks Andi - mine does the same thing. Great tip. I suspect there is probably a capacitor in the box somewhere that is not discharging like it should. Great quick fix!

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FWIW I was told from the start to turn off the battery, plug in the charger to the battery, then plug the charger to the wall. And if the charger was plugged in before I do this, I was told to unplug and let it sit to discharge for a minute. I've had no errors so far, hopefully because of this.

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No not like Nicad, but there are specific precautions to get maxamin cycles from our batteries.

see : http://www.electricbike.com/ebike-charging-fast-or-slow/

Posted earlier:  "I have customers charging with 2A chargers and with timers. They've sorted the charge rate and timing close enough to be able to take a multimeter reading and set their timer and get within a few tenths of a volt to the target. A 36v battery is 10 cells in series or 10s. There's a fairly good chart posted. They target 4-4.1v , or 40-41v as the goal, 80-90%". 

image.jpeg

image.jpeg.f4c0624b2dc6d3f299c2db8744841cda.jpeg

Reddy

Edited by Reddy Kilowatt

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No, the two amp charger that came with your bike is adequate, but if you charge it until the charger light turns green (100%), you'll reduce the charge cycles and you'll not maximize its life. Id consider that battery damage. 

image.jpeg.f4c0624b2dc6d3f299c2db8744841cda.jpeg

Reddy

Edited by Reddy Kilowatt

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Question on charging batterys .  Is it ok with stock charger to charge battery overnight when It may

only need 4 hours to charge and I'm sleeping for 8 hours.  worried about loosing battery life and thinking

about luna's chargers that charge to 80 or 92 percent charge sometime soon

Thanks

 

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Your focus might be changed from concerns about battery life, to loosing yours.

No ebike battery should be charged unattended. Although the Sondors Battery has a BMS to protect the batteries from overcharging, if it is damaged or fails, the Li-Ion batteries have the capacity to start a fire that could burn down a structure or take lives. The chargers supplied with Sondors eBikes are designed to stop the current flow when the batteries reach full charge. However, many problems pertaining to charging batteries have been reported on various Sondors forums. Although I've not read one about a fire, the potential is there and many failed batteries and chargers have been reported. If you must sleep while charging, a best practice would be with the charger plugged into a timer. 

I'm hoping Luna Cycle will offer a 36v Smart Charger that has a selectable charge capacity switch (80/90/100%) for the standard Sonfors factory canister/bottle batteries (8.8ah, 11.5ah) but the Luna 36v Fast Charger (7amp, selectable charge capacity switch (80/90/100%) is too high a capacity for either.

from Electricbike.com:

"7A charging on a 36v 7Ah is fast, 7A on a 20Ah pack, not so much. Completely depends on the packs capacity as to what constitutes good charging practices." 

"If I recall correctly I read somewhere that the 36V 7amp was designed for the Sondor 30ah pack. It's a 9p (9 string in parallel) pack so it can take the 7amps no problem!!!! the PF cell can take 0.5C of charge so around 1.45 amp... So 9x1.45= 13.5 amp charge!
So 7amps is about .25C which is perfect for the 36V Luna Storm 30ah pack" 

image.jpeg.f4c0624b2dc6d3f299c2db8744841cda.jpeg

Reddy

 

Edited by Reddy Kilowatt

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Thanks Tabletteer for your insite. 

Knew better but wanted battery ready to go anytime.  still learning about batterys every day, timer and meter would help.  wish to

electric power one of my ultralight aircraft some time in the future.  300 dollar charger way to go but unavailable

now and quite expensive.

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Elkoflyer, I have followed electricbike.com, Eric Luna's & contributors' articles for a few years. It and Endless-sphere.com are the definitive athority on eBike information. Although dated, by a couple of years, this article still covers a broad spectrum on lithium battery info. http://www.electricbike.com/lithium-cobalt-manganese/

image.jpeg.f4c0624b2dc6d3f299c2db8744841cda.jpeg

Reddy

 

Edited by Reddy Kilowatt
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I've read that we never want to go below 3 volts per cell. Dose anyone know what are sondors batteries voltage cutoff is set at .  I have upgraded battery and was at last bar on LCD and checked voltage and showed around 36 volts on bottom of LCD s third screen. I see controller says cutoff at 30 plus or minus .5

Edited by elkoflyer

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On August 20, 2016 at 4:29 PM, elkoflyer said:

I've read that we never want to go below 3 volts per cell. Dose anyone know what are sondors batteries voltage cutoff is set at .  I have upgraded battery and was at last bar on LCD and checked voltage and showed around 36 volts on bottom of LCD s third screen. I see controller says cutoff at 30 plus or minus .5

Know your low voltage cut off limit

Knowing what your high voltage cut off, and knowing what your low voltage cut off, is the clear way, that you will start to understand your pack and how to maximize its life, and also how to maximize your range when you need it.

Here is typical low voltage cut off of some popular 18650 packs. Low voltage cut off (LVC) will vary depending on which cells you are using and which BMS you have.

36V (10S)  –  27.5 volts

48V (13S)  –  36 volts

52V (14S)  –  39 volts

http://tinyurl.com/TabletteerGuideToHappyBattery

image.jpeg.f4c0624b2dc6d3f299c2db8744841cda.jpeg
Reddy

 

Edited by Reddy Kilowatt

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I don't believe the order of disconnecting matters. I would bet most people disconnect the battery first as they may leave the charger connected to the wall. A charger connected to the wall is like any other household device and should be alright to leave plugged indefinitely.

What I would not do:

  • leave a DC charger connected to a lead acid battery as it may run down the lead acid battery
  • leave a battery pack connected to a charger regardless if the charger was connected or disconnected as it may run down the battery pack

 

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Hello @BonBon and welcome to the Sondors Owners Forum. My best practice is the reverse order of charging. I disconnect the charger from household power first then disconnect the charger from the battery. No battery charger should be left connected to the wall outlet when not in use.

image.jpeg.f4c0624b2dc6d3f299c2db8744841cda.jpeg

Reddy

Edited by Reddy Kilowatt

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1 hour ago, Reddy Kilowatt said:

Hello @BonBon and welcome to the Sondors Owners Forum. My best practice is the reverse order of charging. I disconnect the charger from household power first then disconnect the charger from the battery. No battery charger should be left connected to the wall outlet when not in use.

image.jpeg.f4c0624b2dc6d3f299c2db8744841cda.jpegOkay, that's what I've been doing. Thank you!

Reddy

 

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X-Fold wrote "If it's UL listed or CE approved there's no harm leaving a charger connected." 

Of course there is Fold....besides the fact that a voltage spike can cause damage to the BMS curcuit that could overcharge a li battery,  they may still be drawing current when not attached, to a device, wasting electricity and money. 

I have a 52v 14ah battery that was damaged from just such an episode when a fallen tree limb caused a dead short across a 600v above ground feeder line that runs across my property. I've also seen several wall chargers of a friend's, that were melted and a TV that was fried, during an electrical storm at his home ...all UL approved 

The  Best  Practice  is to unplug your chargers. I have 5 li ion chargers, 3 of them expensive. 

And to an argument that the electricity waisted or money insignificant; my local DMV Driver License Office had a Quarter Epoxied to the sidewalk outside their building. They used all us citiczens for entertainment, in our attempt to grab that quarter as they watched out the office windows...I got the tire tool out if my trunk and got it.)) 

image.jpeg.f4c0624b2dc6d3f299c2db8744841cda.jpeg

Reddy

Edited by Reddy Kilowatt

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