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Amanaland

ANSWERED Replacement Controller

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I just bought a used single speed thin and the previous owner replaced the controller with one from Velomobile. He indicated that it worked for a short period before puking. Now it works at one speed which is about 3-4MPH and that's it. Whats the forum opinion of using a SONDORS replacement versus one from Luna or someone else? I don't mind an upgrade if its warranted and doesn't require substantial modification of my bike to make it work. Also this bike didn't come with the LCD option and it sounds like I would need to use the Sondors LCD with their controller and a different one with the  Storm Hot Rod 20 amp Controller 36-52 torm Hot Rod 20 amp Controller 36-52v

What is the current hot set-up?

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Really not enough info to determine what is wrong with your Thin.  The fact that it runs but only at 3 or 4 mph is very disturbing. It’s should run at at least 15mph with you pedaling. If all the Higo connectors are full seated and no pins damaged then start here: Does the motor/rear wheel turn freely without power,  while on the kickstand, tilting the bike to one side so you can freewheel it by hand?  Does the motor turn backward? Does the motor/rear wheel, run at speed in this configuration using throttle ? The two most likely failures are the controller or motor. If you are using throttle only when you ride, the throttle  is also a possibility and you should also check the PAS Sensor/PickUp and Magnet Wheel on the right side or the crank behind the chain ring for correct spacing (almost touching the sensor throuout It’s rotation).

I wouldn’t consider a Sondors replacment controller or LCD if you decide to try replacing the controller as the first step in trouble shooting your problem.  I’d suggest buying the 25amp hot rod controller from Bolton.ebikes and any of Kyle’s LCDs ( a few monochrome or color to choose from.  If you are still experiencing the problem, then a motor replacment would give you the Thin with the most power upgrades as you can go besides a more powerful battery. You can email Kyle for guidance on products he sells at Bolton.  Tell him Reddy Kilowatt referred you. 

LEMMENO

image.jpeg.bbf8ca6863b27a0ee46f7e1813ac39c7.jpeg

                    Reddy 

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Reddy,  Did you use to work for Iowa Electric Light and Power? I thought he was their logo.

Honestly, I bought it with the knowledge from the previous owner that it needed a controller-I figured it would be dead, but it wasn't. I haven't even ridden it with snow on the ground, but did tilt it on the kickstand before I bought to see if the motor ran, and it spun the back wheel albeit slowly. The battery shows a full charge both on the throttle lever LEDs as well as on the LEDs on the battery. When I hit the throttle while standing next to the bike, it took off with some force. Riding it inside the house its a little hard to tell how fast I'm going - but it will take off from dead stop with my 170# on the seat. There's not enough room in my house to try the pedal assist  or asses its full speed.

I can understand that a poor connection might be the culprit...thought of it on the 11 hour drive home yesterday,  just didn't remember first thing this morning.

Did I mention that I bought a new Thin for my girlfriend in June, so I have the possibility of swapping out parts? I hate the possibility of compromising her components if a faulty part on my bike might take out one of hers. I'll bet replacing the throttle lever is the least expensive option if I'm buying parts and shooting blindly. Do you like Bolton for those too?

I will see if there are any suspicious connections.

Thanks for your coaching!

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No I didn’t but Reddy was the Icon for Electric Companies all over the Country and here @ Texas Power & Light,  when I was a kid. For my duties here, Reddy seemed better suited than Capt’n Tomato Seed. 

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Well, Bolton is now the name for Velomobile and although there are a few other vendors that support us, Kyle has been the better of the support vendor and he’s always avalable to answer questions about products and give guidance, something that Luna has been notoriously bad at. The cost of an aftermarket controller and LCD can be had for the price of a Sondors Controller or LCD but not both.  You don’t need to use throttle at all to test its performance. But the Sondors Thin Throttle is hard to source unless you’re willing to splice in your old Higo connector. Twist throttles are avalable and I think Bolton has them and Sondors.com is out of stock on the Original very expensive replacement. https://sondors.com/products/thumb-throttle-unit

 

Unfortunatly, there is no current 750watt  Bafang Geared Hub Motor avalable for the Thin. I do suspect that one of the 1000watt NonGeared hub motor could be laced into a Thins or a replacement Rim/Wheel.  And of course, a Bafang BBSHD or lesser middrive could be mounted and although none reported, there is certainly the option of mounting an additional front 350 Watt Bafang (probable require a wider spaced fork), for a AWD Thin. There have been a couple of AWD Sondors Fats, but I think only one remains operating.  

image.jpeg.0595cadf17bfa972eab184062b667f3b.jpeg

                Reddy 

 

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I don't know, "Captain Tomato Seed" has a nice ring to it!

The plot just thickened:

I just came from my girlfriend's and realized that she has the boost selector (for lack of a better term) ...and I don't. I only have the handlebar mounted throttle. Maybe that's the problem and the previous seller wasn't completely forthright. Maybe my bike has morphed into a single speed? So where to go from there? Do I just go back to Kyle to see if this component can be sourced through him and would work with the controller I have?

I know you're shooting in the dark too. Does someone out there have a spare to sell?

Thanks again for your thoughts. I think that your last paragraph may have been intended for another lost soul.

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That 3 button selector on the handle bar is the control selector for the LCD. It comes with the LCD. Amoung other functions, it will allow for 5 levels of Pedal Assist.  

My suggestion is to buy the KT- LCD3 from Kyle @ Bolton (the color KT-LCD8H is more expensive but easier to configure). Follow the recommendation to configure your existing Velomobile Hot Rod 20amp controller with it, using the manual listed here. https://sondorsforum.com/topic/241-kt-lcd3-user-manual-sondors-ebike/

That’s Kyle. In the video. Your Controller may have configuration problems and by re-setting it up, that may solve all your problems. If you still have problems, then I’d suggest replacing your controller with the 25Amp ver from Bolton. Ask Kyle if it will fit in the battery triangle Box. You’ll still only  be spending a C note, on both )) 

You can also find instruction on assemble and care for your Thin on the Sondors site or YouTube. 

LEMMENO. 

I grow a small garden (a lot more than I can eat) here at my Lake Cabin in an Oak Forest.

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I distribute veggies to both small town offices and water dept,  near where I live. Sooo I’m known to those guys as Capt’n Tomato Seed, the modern day repurposing of Johnny Apple Seed.

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Capt’ Tomato Seed ...no wait..Reddy!

Ask me about coffee. 

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great pictures Reddy!

So I have ordered the color LCD from Bolton, Kyle thought it was likely my issue - not having one with a controller that expects one. I'm anxious to get it on and try things out. I rode yesterday for the first time - streets are finally dry and relatively clean, and using the thumb throttle, I think that i'm going about walking speed.

I notice a pretty extreme rake to the rigid front fork. The fork has a definite change in angle below the fork head. Does that seem standard? It REALLY wants to go straight. I may post a picture later.

Also someone mentioned a place on-line where folks would be able to sell parts - am I missing something?

Do you know of any protection available for where the power cable enters the rear hub? Seems like a pretty vulnerable spot.

Thanks again, its great that you take so much time to field questions.

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There is a function in the LCD setup, that allows the bike to be powered at walking speed. I’ve never configured my bikes for that function so I don’t know exactly the operation but I’d suspect that’s how your controller is locked into powering your bike. 

There looks to be  slight rake on the Thin’s Fork.  Try comparing this side view to your bike.  If your fork is bent at the steering tube, you have a couple of options. Let’s deal with those when/if you determine if yours is damaged. But just for reference   https://sondors.com/collections/parts-store/products/thin-suspension-fork94219423-07A3-47DD-AFD4-5B00195F7C9C.thumb.jpeg.3bf68fed674862fef12831886039eb2b.jpeg

We have a Marketplace Section here on our forum.   https://sondorsforum.com/forum/12-sondors-ebikes-parts-marketplace/

I’d suggest selling or looking for items both here and on the Sondors Storm FaceBook Page.  (“Storm” was the original name of the first gen Fat bike).   https://m.facebook.com/groups/StormOwnersGroup/

Yep, the Motor Cable Axel Exit is a vulnerable spot. Newer releases of bikes have come equiped with protection devices to protect them during shipping and after.  If the motor/rear wheel has been properly reinstalled after removal, the cutout in the axel and rubber cap affords some protection, if it’s installed with the cutout facing rear, it can act as a guillotine and damage the cable in a fall. Those brackets are not sold on the Sondors.com website but you can ask Sondors Support for avalibility by messaging them from their website.      https://sondors.com/pages/support

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                          REDDY 

 

 

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You're a good man Reddy. I think that my fork is more raked than this picture but will take a look later today.  If I were to replace it, I'd hope that someone swapped a suspension front fork for the non-suspension one like I have. At least at this juncture, I'm not sold on the additional weight and complexity of front suspension, and there may be the plain old-school fork laying in a corner somewhere. I appreciate your help.

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Just wanted to put this out there:

The LCD controller from Bolton arrived; I got the color version and it was a breeze to program. There is still a combination of snow and ice on the streets here so I haven't had a chance to really give things the road test, but previously the bike went ...maybe 3-4 MPH with me on it. Now after adding the LCD controller (the previous owner replaced the original Sondors controller but never had the LCD part) when I tip the bike up on the kick stand and use the thumb throttle, indicated speed is 49.6 MPH no-load...which I see as promising.

We talk about "controllers" and in my book, that could mean the thumb throttle, the LDC control screen with attached buttons, or the silver box that lives in with the battery.  Aren't these all controllers of some sort? Somewhere is there a simple explanation of what these respective parts do?

The help that Reddy had offered seems to have proven invaluable. Hopefully in a few days I can do a road test to prove or disprove my results. Thanks again for the support!

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I’m thinking that was 49.6 kph,  about 31mph which is significant. I’d say your Thin is on its road to giving it’s owner a happy electric life.  When I went outside this morning I didn’t see my shadow (light showers forecasted, movin out this evening) so I’m predicting a warming trend and when the roads dry..... great riding!

Maybe not simple but if you want the best info, start here at page 27 and work backwards towards 1, by picking your interests, for a pretty all encompassing explanations of Ebikes and their components. 

https://www.electricbike.com/hubmotors/

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          REDDY 

 

 

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Reddy, now that spring has finally arrived I've been able to put a few miles on my Thin. The new Bolton LCD is set up correctly and I'm pleased with the bike's overall performance. Looks like the battery life is a little abbreviated, no doubt because of being second hand and a higher power controller than what Sondors provided originally.

I think that I'd like to have a back-up battery, because now we have two Thins in the family. Do you have an opinion of what is the best option or is the triangular battery going to be limited to Sondors?

I had asked you about the rake on the fork earlier and think that its just a little weird in its geometry. Seems like there are elements of "rake" and "trail" commonly involved in fork design and I think that all we get with the non-suspension fork is rake. It just takes a little while to acclimate to how it feels, but I haven't been spit off my bike while riding it yet either.

Your advice has proven to be on-point and I appreciate your perspective. Thanks again!

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Short and Sweet, I’d mount this on, or under a rear rack. https://lunacycle.com/52v-panasonic-13-5ah-shark-pack/

It’s said that this 48V , 17.5Ah Sondors Fat X or SX battery is the best deal going. Kinda hard to carry on the rack of Thin, unless you find Panniers large enough to contain it. About the same power density at the Luna but won’t drive your Thin quite as fast.  https://sondors.com/collections/parts-store/products/sondors-x-xs-48v-battery

I’ve thought of using two in panniers to power a 96V Fat.  I already have too many bikes.

There are Brick, 52V packs at Luna but most are out of stock. 52V packs are kinda the sweet spot for eBike batteries and are 10% more powerful than the 48Vs. 

https://www.electricbike.com/52v-battery-3077-fet/

Make sure the Steering Tube is not bent at the fork crown. If it seems a little squirrely, monkey with your tire pressure. I ride at max recommended pressure on my Vee Tire Co. Mission Command II’s , on hard pack and pavement, just under where the front wants to self steer. Front hub bearing adjustment can cause problems if there is either play in the axel ot too tight. Good time to add some Phil Wood or Park Tool Brand that are Bicycle Shop standards. 

image.jpeg.0595cadf17bfa972eab184062b667f3b.jpeg

              REDDY

 

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Whew that battery costs twice what I paid for my whole bike! Will the 20 or 25 amp controller still play nice with the higher voltage?

There is a regional musician around here who goes by the name of Duke Tumatoe - no idea if its his real or just a stage name. His humor matches his creativity. You might enjoy a somewhat kindred spirit  ;^)

www.duketumatoe.com

Thanks again!

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Amanaland, Yippy Aye O Ty Ay.

 The controllers were made for the extra power and you’ll see a remarkble increase in acceleration and torque plus several mph faster top end. The original Sondors, upgrade trifecta was the Controller, Bigger Battery and LCD. ....YOU WONT BE SORRY and you'll  ride like a Cowboy into the Dawn of Montana!

https://youtu.be/smZA9Jv3qH0

Use a 0% interest Credit Card Check and pay it off in a couple of months. 

image.jpeg.0595cadf17bfa972eab184062b667f3b.jpeg

            REDDY

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Don’t forget to post pictures of your Thins on your Adventures, to our Gallery, as soon as Bilzzard conditions subside.  It was 90° here yesterday.  <]:^)   Not Brag’n cause it will be @ 100°+ here before long. But on a Sondors you can ride faster than the heat can torment you.... it’s just when you stop that you FRY

              REDDY 

 

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