Jump to content
We've updated some things - please give us feedback when something isn't working as it should. e-Mail: user-support@sondorsforum.com Read more... ×
Matt

After-market Contollers and Displays

Recommended Posts

Are there any compatible after-market controllers+displays for Sondors X? I have the 48v model Sondors X purchased in December of 2017.

My display has quit displaying my speed.  Sondors replaced the display, but that didn't fix the problem. 

I am now interested to see if there are any controller alternatives. I see that some of the other ebike manufacturers are installing color displays. That would be a nice upgrade.

I have seen the Velomobile "Wendy" display+controller.  If there aren't any better alternatives, that's probably what I'll get.

Any thoughts or advice on controller upgrades would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt

Edited by Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All Sondors aftermarket vendors offer or have in the past, the LCD / Controller pair.  Reguardless of the source the performance is the same except the kT LCD 3 versions of display have proven  reliable

https://electrobikeworld.com/products/25amp-controller-with-higo-connectors

https://electrobikeworld.com/products/kt-lcd3-usb

 image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Reddy Kilowatt said:

All Sondors aftermarket vendors offer or have in the past, the LCD / Controller pair.  Reguardless of the source the performance is the same except the kT LCD 3 versions of display have proven  reliable

https://electrobikeworld.com/products/25amp-controller-with-higo-connectors

https://electrobikeworld.com/products/kt-lcd3-usb

 image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

Many buy the 25A controller to use it for 500W or even 750W motors. I also have the problem with the faulty speed indicator on the Sondors X from 2018 and therefore ordered the 25A controller and the thumb throttle from Wendy. Then there is the new color display, as soon as it is available. Wendy says that's about the 10th of August.

But I have the EU version of the Sondor X, so only with 250 watts motor. Do I have to pay attention to something? Will the 250 watt motor possibly wear out faster with the 25A? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stefan, no...  your 250watt Bafang is exactly the same motor as the 350watt (rest of the world) motors. “Only the Data Plate on the motor case  has been changed to protect the innocent” (eu customers). Motor Manufacturers can arbitrarily rate their motors what ever the want as the indicated rating is not any kind of limit. I and others here have operated the stock 250/350watt motors with the 25amp controller and 52v batteries without any harm. The Bafang Motors are considered bullet proof under all options available in the market. User abuse can destroy any motor.

Almost all of us with the 750Watt motors use the compatible 35amp controllers that uses the larger power cables and larger Higo Controller/Motor connector that is intended to match the 750 Bafang. 

image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Stefan Hupe said:

Will the 250 watt motor possibly wear out faster with the 25A? 

@Stefan Hupe What Reddy is saying above is largely correct.  I will add one caveat:  We have seen a few Sondors owners with 350w motors and 25a controllers let the smoke out of their motors if and only if they have a 52v battery AND they are using the throttle to power up long hill grades.  If you do intend to use the bike in hills with a 250/350w-rated motor and a 52v battery, go into the display settings and dial the controller output back to 20 amps.  Check with Wendy to ensure the new color displays can do this and if not, consider buying one of the KT-LCD3s instead.

52v and 20a has been proven to be completely bulletproof under all circumstances.  52v and 25a has only rarely had problems... so no need to push the panic button either way most likely.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Reddy and Matt! I have the stock battery with 48V 17AH. So I think that on hills, I will not overstrain the engine if I drive up at full power for a minute or two. The forum was again very helpful and informative for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/29/2018 at 10:57 AM, Reddy Kilowatt said:

All Sondors aftermarket vendors offer or have in the past, the LCD / Controller pair.  Reguardless of the source the performance is the same except the kT LCD 3 versions of display have proven  reliable

https://electrobikeworld.com/products/25amp-controller-with-higo-connectors

https://electrobikeworld.com/products/kt-lcd3-usb

 image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

Is this a direct replacement for the Sondors standard fat bike? I mean does it need any cable extensions like on the Fold? It looks like it may be a little larger than the stock controller. I have downloaded the manual for the KT LCD 3.

I'm thinking this would be the first step in upgrading my bike. Bigger battery can wait for next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes they are but always email the vendor for the latest info for your particular model Sondors. 

This was my installation location when I used the 25amp hot rod controller, the first upgrade I accomplished besides brake rotors, 3 years ago. 

74202934-5534-4B54-A7B2-85A59FC65AEB.thumb.jpeg.6b73db17ddf7735f31face13bbd4f812.jpeg

image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This  Saturday I installed a 25 A controller and LCD from Electrobikeworld. Mounted the controller similar to what Reddy did above. I did find there was an extra RED cable on the controller but it had male pins instead of sockets like the brake cables. Anyone know what that's for? I left it disconnected.

I went through the parameter settings using the settings I got from the Sondors controller. Is there a better English translation of the pdf manual with better description of what each P and C parameter does? Some of them require further study.

Took a short ride Saturday afternoon as thunderstorms were headed my way. Today I went for a longer ride following my typical route. With the 36 V 12.8 AH battery there was a noticeable difference.  More power climbing hills, better acceleration when using the thumb throttle.  Definitely a different feel to it. I find that I was using PAS 2 instead of 3 most of the time and PAS 5 takes off like a rocket.  I'm not sure about battery range, but it didn't appear to use  a noticeably  larger amount,,, time will tell. Overall, a great upgrade without the expense of a larger battery.

Edited by Joe Engineer
clarify

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, even though I set the readout for MPH (Imperial units) the ambient temperature reads out in degrees C.

Any ideas? Not a biggie, but I would like to see degrees F.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe, the extra Red Higo is for lights. 

I’m not sure where the best of Controller Settings explanations resides on the forum but either 3D-vice or RoyalTS posts under the Instruction header. But none are clear or in plain English. You might check YouTube videos. 

The temp display is always in C°, regardless of metric or imperial and of course, there is no motor temp  sensor in our Bafang 8-Fun motors so that display is inop, and I think that is why the ambient  temp is stuck in C°. 

image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Reddy, I wonder if the controller can be tweaked a little more by adjusting the parameters, but there doesn't seem to be a thorough  explanation for many of them. 

I recall that the Sondors LCD displayed degrees F, Oh well.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Joe Engineer the new color KT-LCD8H display has the same settings as the KTLCD3, and was shockingly re-translated.  This time by a Chinese person who has a smattering of English ability vs. ... well, what we had before.  A Martian I think.  Hunt down that manual and you will actually be able to understand it.  For the most part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Matt, I have the pdf of the manual. Some of the terms are incomprehensible at first reading, an I'm an Electrical Engineer.

I'm not really sure what C4, Handlebar Speed Limit means.

C13 ABS Brakes -  What is this about? Can the control provide regenerative braking (using the motor as a brake) and would this harm anything?

Anyway, it works as it is and there is need for some experimentation.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe,

C5 :  When C5 setting is 10, maximum current value in controller maximum operating current value (ie, limit current value); when setting is 9, maximum current value minus 0.5A, when setting is 8, maximum current value minus 1A and so on.

C5 parameter definition table: 

54BBE3A0-78DB-46BD-8B66-A09A54840609.thumb.jpeg.e8be48e3b0e8b732c102eb2584714ee5.jpeg

The KT LCD 3 is a display that is applicable to many other controllers and motors. Some of the functions are not applicable to our Sondors like, C13.  If you’ll review, the correct Operators Manual for your Display, you’ll notice that C parameter function and settings end at C12. 

image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, That C5 table is different from the one in the manual I have. Mine has the maximums divided by various amounts rather than subtracting the increments.  Is that verified?

I have mine at the Max and I doubt the stock extended battery can supply 25 A,  there is a fuse in the battery base. I never checked it , but it may be 20 A.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Reddy Kilowatt said:

What manual do you have?

image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

I have a pdf file   KT-LCD3-V30.pdf   -  KT-LCD3 eBike Special Meter. It has www.SZKTDZ.COM at the bottom of the front cover. Been using that one.

I  just looked and there is another one  KT3-LCD_V1_full_en.pdf that has the same C5 table as above.

So these refer to different version numbers. I believe the links to the  manuals were provided in messages posted here.

Not sure how you would tell which version the controller is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe, I’ve always used this manual, that member 3D-vice supplied to the forum a couple of years ago. 

https://sondorsforum.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=509

and refrenced the C-5 settings on page 29. 

I have not changed my C-5 setting, on any of my Sondors nor on the 3 controllers, I’ve had on the EBL, Stock 15A, Hot Rod 25A with 52V Pack or 35A with 52V packs. 

image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Joe Engineer said:

Wow, That C5 table is different from the one in the manual I have. Mine has the maximums divided by various amounts rather than subtracting the increments.  Is that verified?

I have mine at the Max and I doubt the stock extended battery can supply 25 A,  there is a fuse in the battery base. I never checked it , but it may be 20 A.

No it isn't.  The LCD8H literally became available within about a week of my original post. 

edit: That means the folks who buy a new LCD8H for their Sondors - and they are selling fast - are not going to be able to take advantage of the widely used but undocumented C5=0 (full amps but slow roll on start)  and futhermore the amperage cut is fixed, so my 35a controller vs. a 25a controller will get different results.

 

Here's the rule you should use:  If you can understand an entry, use the LCD3 manual.  If you can't thanks to the Chinese --> Martian -->English translation, go to the LCD8H manual and see if that helps.

That handlebar startup stuff is meant for some of our poor oppressed European brethren who have goofball regulations that vary in their allowance of throttles and whether or not the bicycle is allowed to power up without the pedals moving first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point was to use the LCD8H manual to clarify the LCD3 if confusion exists.  the two are similar enough that you can gain insight via the improved English translation.  Sondors owners are doing direct-swap upgrades to the 8H now so they are interchangeable without a change in controller.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My mistake.  I didn't realize the screen shot of the C5 settings was from an old LCD3 manual.  I thought it was from the new LCD8h.

That screen shot is wrong.  Or rather the manual is outdated.  The V3.0 manual dated in 2015 is the current one.  We need to get that manual updated as what we're seeing above is incorrect.

By the way the 'new' manual has additional settings at the end that were formerly undocumented and are quite useful.  Old manual stops at C12.  Current manual stops at C14.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.