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Matt

ANSWERED My speedometer isn't registering

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HI Folks,

I'm hoping someone can shed some light on my speedometer problem.   It's not registering...or registers a speed for a fraction of a second and flips back to 0.0.  This started yesterday.  I have a Sondors original model X.  Ordered and received in the beginning of January, 2018.  I've been ridding to work-and-back routinely, as long as its not raining.  I've put on about 600-700 miles so far.   I was out for a healthy ride yesterday when I looked down and noticed the speed registering 0.0 miles per hour.  I stopped, restarted the whole bike (powered off LCD; powered down the battery; powered it all back on again), and same thing.  If I watch the LCD, every now and again, the speed registers for a brief moment. (like half a second, it will flash a speed and go back to zero)

Pedal assist is working fine.  The 5 ranges of assist are working as expected.  
The battery indicator is fine.  The power assist indicator fluctuates based on assist or throttle levels.  
Odometer isn't working...for obvious reasons. (but I thought I'd point that out).
I've gone around the bike and cleaned it all up.  I thought maybe the speedometer was somehow fed by the pedal assist disk/magnet system; but evidently not.

Any thoughts on this? 
Where's the speed measured from?

Thanks!
Matt

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Speed is measured from the motor from what I know.  I had to change the settings when I got a new LCD and controller for it to read correctly, but sounds like maybe the controller isn't giving the LCD a reading from the motor.

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There is one routine that the Forum Owner Andi suggests when these anomalies arise and that is to power off, then systematically unplug and replug every Higo connector from the controller including the motor plug under the right chaistay, then power up and check for correct usage. This could in essence reboot the controller. 

But because we have had numerous bad controllers diagnosed here and by Sondors CS and replaced by Sondors.com, in the latest release of new models,  I’m guessing it’s a bad controller or not as likely a bad LCD. 

One caveat would be if the bike has been used in very wet conditions or exposed to a pressure washer, which would increase the chances of moisture in the motor or a connector, specifically the hall sensor wire/connectors pins, inside the Motor/Controller Lg Higo connector. 

You should report your problem to Sondors.com using the message button on the home page, during US west coast business hours and speak to a live human being (sending emails can result in long wait times as they collect in their mail queue, sometimes days or week) this should result in the most timely response and result. 

This is a helpful article for those interested in trouble shooting. 

https://www.electricbike.com/water-proofing-trouble-shooting/

image.jpeg.0595cadf17bfa972eab184062b667f3b.jpeg

               Reddy

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John - Thank you.  I was afraid that was the answer (speedometer sensor is in the motor).  But after scouring the bike, front and back, side to side...I drew the conclusion that if it's not somehow associated to the PAS sensor, then it must be wired inside the motor.  Which means...there's nothing serviceable for me to inspect/clean/repair.  

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Reddy-

I haven't gotten the bike "very " wet; no pressure wash or any riding in the rain.  But I have ridden when the ground is mildly wet.  I usually try to avoid puddles.  I wouldn't suspect  water damage.  (though, I guess I can't rule that out, either)

So this morning, before my ride to work, I powered  off, and  disconnected EVERY higo; starting with the battery and including the one near the motor under the chain stay.  No avail. Once it was all reconnected, powered up and spun up the motor; no reading. (execept an occassional reading that flashed in, but returned to zero)

I reset the controller to factory defaults.  Restarted.  Retested.  Still nothing.

Rode to work.  I noticed a couple of things.  On the two or three small hills I go down, I am almost positive the motor/assist kicked off at/above 20mph.  I tried holding the throttle down and peddling to max ability, and motor was shutting off at some point. Presumably 20mph.  So I suspect the motor and controller still now the speed.

Ok,  I'll contact Sondors today using the website chat option.  We'll see what they suggest.

Thank you.

 

 

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Matt, That’s the Speed limiting govoner now reset to factory settings in LCD set-up. Contact Sondors, we have never had a new, bad factory motor reported or replaced,  it’s very unlikely it’s your motor. The Hall Sensor system is responcable for reporting data related to speed and if that was failing in the motor, it couldn’t operate and there would be an Error Code reported to the LCD.  What LCD do you have? 

image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

      Reddy

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

John - Thank you.  I was afraid that was the answer (speedometer sensor is in the motor).  But after scouring the bike, front and back, side to side...I drew the conclusion that if it's not somehow associated to the PAS sensor, then it must be wired inside the motor.  Which means...there's nothing serviceable for me to inspect/clean/repair.  

I don't think it's the motor, it's most likely the controller.  If you've not already upgraded and can't get it to work, I'd buy a new 25amp controller and LCD as they are about $100 for both with HIGO connectors.  I get a few more miles an hour now plus faster acceleration from the aliexpress set.

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Reddy, I have the new KD51C display. Or is that the controller?  Anyway, it says A1111.

Glad to hear that it's unlikely to be the motor.  It's odd to me that the controller would be failing with these symptoms, though.  Being an intermittent issue...it flashes a speed once in a while, but goes back to 0.0, seemed like a mechanical issue.

Anyway, I contacted support on the web chat...they asked me to submit a ticket via email.  I'll report back what I hear.

 

 

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@John VanderMyde

Can you send a link to the product/products you bought on Aliexpress?  There's a lot there,  but not clear what I should be looking at/for.

Couldn't find a 25amp controller.

Thanks!

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Matt,  You might want to consider buying  the controller / LCD combo here and select 25Amp for Triangle batteries that have the right connector for your battery. Aliexpress requires you to salvage the connector off your old controller and splice it the new Ali unit.

https://velomobileshop.com/collections/controllers/products/copy-of-36v-48v-motor-controllers-free-shipping?variant=44308850243

https://velomobileshop.com/collections/lcd-screens/products/sondors-lcd-screen-free-shipping?variant=128620003331

Youll have to call and ask when the LCD will be available, currently sold out.  

image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

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Quick update - I emailed the Sondors support group.  They requested that I unplug the LCD; and plug it back in again.  To no avail.  The next step is to send me out a new LCD; but they're on back-order right now, so delivery is expected in a couple more weeks. 

I'll be honest...I'm skeptical this will fix the issue.  But we'll see.

 

 

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Matt,
  Did you find a solution?  Like you, I am suspicious of the PAS sensor.
     My KD51C display just developed a similar problem.  It will occasionally show the MPH and then goes to zero.     I had the PAS cut out in the middle of a 12 mile ride, but it came back after turning the LCD on and off.   Toward the end of the ride, it wouldn't show speed at all.  I hate to replace because I am waiting for the new color LCDs.

 



 

Edited by Lee Love

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Worth noting in your parts searches:  

Velomobileshop.com is Kyle Chittock, who is effectively the U.S. distributor for the products made available by Pasion Ebike... which is owned by Wendy Xie.  Buying from Wendy/Pasion on AliExpress will net you *exactly* the same product as those purchased from Kyle/Velomibileshop.  Except if you are in the U.S. and order from Kyle you are going to get your products in a few days versus 2-4 weeks direct from Wendy in China.  If Kyle is sold out in the USA, Wendy very likely is not (but drop a line to Kyle @ his facebook group and often as not he has just not updated his web site, or has a unit or two in reserve he will let you have).

Both vendors are as completely reliable as you can get.  I once received a throttle with a bad connector from Wendy and a single email to them via the Ali message center and they a) apologized profusely and b) immediately mailed me a correct replacement.

I can't help but note that the Kunteng 'KT' displays and controllers that were the Sondors mainstays for the first couple of years seemed to be completely reliable, while the newer KD-51C from Tianjin seem to be occasionally problematic.   Reverting back to KT controllers would not be a bad thing, especially since you can increase your controller max amperage from 15a to 25a.

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I was hoping someone understood how the Speedometer worked.  From the hub?  From the PAS sensor?  I did spray a little oil on the cassette, making sure I didn't overspray.
    Like I said, I am going to wait to change until the color LCD is out.   I'd like to try some fixes.   At least the PAS and everything else is still working.   I can use a bike app on my phone for a speedo until the color LCDs come out.

 

Thanks!

Edited by Lee Love

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Hey Lee,

It’s based on the Hall Sensor System but your problem sound like either a bad LCD or Controller. Do you have the stock Sondors Controller? If you do, the New Color Display will most likely not be compatible ...  unless Storm decides to brand versions, and that would mean a different proprietary version,  color LCD for every model of Sondors. 

The Pass Magnet and Sensor are pretty rudimentary devices and as long as the Sensor is in correct proximity to the magnet wheel, through out its rotation, about the only other PAS Problem, might be a damaged PAS cable/wire or connector.  

We are seeing an increased incident of LCD’s and Controller malfunction with the last couple of releases and especially with the KD51C.  

image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

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All I am asking for is what to check.   I am waiting  to upgrade my controller untill Wendy X has the color LCDs in.

Today's project was assembling the trailer.

 

 

 

 

 

1527388815722745905044.jpg

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Check What I reported previously. There is nothing YOU  can check,  that I know of, besides what I just suggested in my previous post.  There are no serviceable items that you can trouble shoot in either the Controller or LCD.  One or the other of those two elements is your problem.   You have an intermittent display problem. 

You suspect the PAS system.... The things I listed are how you can check it. I’m not sure of the test perimeters (never had too, they either work or need to be aligned) but you could check the differences in resistance,  with your multimeter, in the PAS system, while turning the crank, to check for any irregular anomaly that would affect your Speedometer- Display-Field, winking off.  But like I said, it’s not the PAS System. By the way I changed my PAS System from 8 magnet to 12. 

But read this, then look inside your motor for damaged Hall Sensor wires. That’s the root of where signals emanate that end up as speed numbers on your display. 

http://www.electricbike.com/hub-motor-wires/

Your solution should start with contacting Sondors.com for their help with the bike they manufactured, or not. 

image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy 

 

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Since yesterday I have the same problem than Matt. I used the Sondors chat yesterday and they emailed my conversation to the tech support which will contact me. I tried shutting off everything like explained in this thread and disconnecting every higo plug. But it doesn't work. Yesterday I disconnected the battery and swichtched the display on to discharge the capacitors, but it didn't solve the problem, too.

 @Matt Did you get your new display and did it solve the problem?

Kind Regards

Tino

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My problem isn't solved. I contacted the sondors chat 3 times and 3 times they told me they will give my request to the tech support (again). But I did't receive an answer.

After the first few kilometers the speed information stopped working completely. After around 400km it startet to work an the way to work but showing 1/3 of the real speed. After the half way it showed 1/6 of the real speed. This worked for around 100km the whole time showing 1/6 of the real speed. Now it showes sometimes the 1/6 speed, sometimes nothing. 

Does anybody know where to search for the failure. The controller knows the right speed, because stopping assistance at 25km/h and other tested speed limits work. So the problem should be located in a part of the controller, sending the speed information, the connection to the display, or the display itself, right? Or are there any other ideas? 

Or does anybody know how Sondors solved the problem for others who had the same problem? 

I have a little bit experience in soldering and in electronics. When I know what to measure or check, I would do that. Or if I would know what to get new and where to get, I maybe would buy it by myself. So I whould be happy to get some helpful hints.

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Hi, brief update.  

After 4, long months, my new display is in transit.  Hope to have it tonight or tomorrow and will let you know if that fixes my problem.

On a side note; i have two sondors bikes, both purchased at the same time, early January 2018. My wife's bike finally began to exhibit the same problem last month.  

Stay tuned for another update.

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Hi Matt, 

thank you for your reply. Today I received an answer from Sondors. after I sent an Email again this days. They say it sounds like the magnets inside the motor ar loose.  I gave much additional information of the behavior and that assisting stops at 25km/h without the LCD showing anythink.

I will tell, too, when I have an answer.

Kind Regards

Tino

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1 hour ago, tino79 said:

Hi Matt, 

thank you for your reply. Today I received an answer from Sondors. after I sent an Email again this days. They say it sounds like the magnets inside the motor ar loose.  I gave much additional information of the behavior and that assisting stops at 25km/h without the LCD showing anythink.

I will tell, too, when I have an answer.

Kind Regards

Tino

Thanks Tino.  Sounds like the same problem on 5 different bikes (four here and one at the other forum.)    The only solution I have heard of for our problem was from a Facebook forum.   One person said they fixed the problem when they replaced the motor.   So, it sounds like it must be the magnets in the motor.    Sondors should know this for certain by now.   I received my Sondors Thin7 in January 2018 like Matt.  May be a production problem.   
 

Edited by Lee Love

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Do you know how the magnets could be the problem without changing the speed limit? I mean, if the controller has the information from the motor that the speed is zero, so the controller should keep assisting beyond 25 km/h (for Europe models).

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You can easily determine if the hub motor magnets are dislodged because there will be clunking noise  as the wheel rotates and I’d you open the motor case you’ll see if they are or not.  The eight segmented magnets in the hub, determine the speed signals sent to the controller and then to the LCD. The PAS sensor magnet wheel on the Bottom Bracket Spindle does not  have anything to do with reporting speed to the Controller or LCD, if it did, your displayed speed on the LCD would drop to -0- when you started coasting at speed.

@tino79 your conjecture about assisting because the LCD is reporting -0- mph has nothing to do with the speed limitation setting. 

image.jpeg.460181aebee7ca43d0f0c2b7c7188c24.jpeg

     Reddy

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