Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I was looking at chainring options too (though I hope to stay with the stock ring). Was looking at this low-level Shimano. Wasn't planning to do a 3x3, just looking for an inexpensive option with some feasibility for flexibility.

 

Shimano M361 Hybrid Crankset (Black)

It comes with a chainguard if you order the correct version.

48t 

on the 14 17 20 thats 3.4, 2.8, 2.4

on the 16 19 22 thats 3, 2.5, 2.2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm totally up to be the experimental installer on the 14-17-21, since it's what I ordered. It's probably going to show up end of July.

I'm going to order a 16-18-21 too, just in case. And a 16t single too, just in case just in case.

Edit: Looking at the picture again, this looks a lot like a five speed width freewheel, with a plastic spacer and a missing gear. So I dug around and it looks like 'multispeed' freewheels (like a Shimano megarange) are also in the 30mmish range. And based on some other forum members experience, this is probably not going to work so well. So that is $15 burnt. 

Freewheel spacing for the cogs, in a handy table

So plan B is moving to a 16-18-21 real 3 speed freewheel and getting a new crank and ring.

Damn.

14t freewheel.jpg

Edited by Grinchy
research . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 14-17-21 came today. It's definitely much thicker than the stock 16t single as surmised from the photo. Not at all what I was looking for as far as easy plug and play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm tired of speculating what might or might not work. the last of my parts just arrived in the mail (the lunacycle 20A controller & screen) so I'm going to tear into the bike tonight and start assembling the conversion. I have enough parts to put together just about any of the varied configurations mentioned in this posting including the 14-17-20 or the 16-19-22. I have 2 different, derailleurs, 2 shifters, chain & links, shift sleeve and end caps & ferrules and just about anything else I can think of, so time to dive in and see what I can come up with.

I'm going to build one of the bikes with an Sram 3.0  twist shifter and the Shimano 105 derailleur and the other bike gets the Shimano Tourney FT35 with the electric servo shift. I'll take pictures when I can so I should have a good post tomorrow with some real information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem. I plan on doing a separate thread devoted to the shifter. It's not exclusively my idea. As with most great ideas , in the internet age, it's really an open source, open hardware idea. There have been several starter projects about this subject, on the web, in the past. The big problem is they aren't complete, or at the very least, hard to follow to completion. Definitely not constructables. There was even a web site devoted to the subject, which is now gone and only lives as an archive, somewhere in the Google universe.

I'll do my best to make a descent post that will allow anyone, with a modicum of skills, to construct an electronic derailleur using a handful of off the shelf parts readily available from local or internet sources. Also, I would like some open source type input, from the community, to advance the concept and implementation. As proved by this thread on 3 speed upgrades, there are some really talented and inventive people out there and when they get together on an idea, marvelous things happen.

My time constraints , right now, are pretty massive. I'm at the tail end of a 6 year, whole house remodel. I've been living in a half constructed house, surrounded by bare stud walls in almost every room for way too long. If I weren't single, my wife would have left or killed me years ago. Even though I have an extreme tolerance for personal discomfort, like not having a working closet for 2 years, I've reached my limits and have vowed to conclude my ordeal this summer and get back the illusive creature comforts that I once enjoyed.

Putting my ebike upgrades on hold has been a necessity but it has also given me time to think things through and order the parts I might need using the "slow boat from China" method. That being said, I finally have my parts and the ideas that are bursting from my imagination can no longer be contained. So, I will do my best to press forward with the electronic derailleur project and see if I can complete a working prototype as soon as possible. I'll post pictures of my parts and ideas tonight and we'll see if we can kickstart this project, figuratively speaking. Stay tuned for further updates.

MisterFixIt1952

Edited by MisterFixIt1952

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One quick thing. I'm making this electronic derailleur because I don't think anyone who has done a 3 speed conversion is completely satisfied with the shifter portion of the project. To my knowledge, no one makes a descent 3 speed shifter that works with the 16-19-22 freewheel that we are, pretty much, forced to use. Due to the unusual spacing of the cogs, thumb shifters are not synchronized properly and require "technique" to operate and twist shifters or friction shifters are not as precise or convenient to use either.

Since we are riding electric bikes, it only seems natural that there should be an electronic solution to our problem. Thus the "Electro-shift" idea. Besides, it opens up a world of possibilities for assisted power input if we use our imaginations and a bit of ingenuity, not to mention the "nifty factor".

MisterFixIt1952

Edited by MisterFixIt1952

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally understand on the house.

I wonder what shifting is used for the 'stock' scooter or wherever these 3 speed narrow freewheels are meant to be used. Must be some mechanism set up for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of the 3 speed bikes, that have these freewheels, are found on are kids bikes and use basic, no frills, friction shifters. Old guys, such as myself, have less tolerance for a lack of precision ;) (this is my favorite emoticon cuz I only have site in one eye)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that makes some sense. sadly the last time I saw a friction shifter was when a lucky purchaser wheeled away my mid 1980s Shogun at a garage sales in 1997.

tange tubes. fully lugged. each lug highlighted carefully with a perfect pinstripe of silver paint. a truly sad day.

19 Shogun 400 (1986).JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Grinchy said:

that makes some sense. sadly the last time I saw a friction shifter was when a lucky purchaser wheeled away my mid 1980s Shogun at a garage sales in 1997.

tange tubes. fully lugged. each lug highlighted carefully with a perfect pinstripe of silver paint. a truly sad day.

19 Shogun 400 (1986).JPG

I still have mine. Long before Greg Lemond brought time trial bikes to the tour. Sew-Ups, Shimano 600image.jpeg

image.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Kaze was manufactured as depicted except for the extended & higher rise stem and repositioned shifters on the added aero bar. The Shogun Kaze is the only bicycle I know of using the smaller front wheel and tire, besides 650c-700c combinations. It was nicknamed a Funny Bike (denoting the drag race cars from the era), it is a TT Pursuit bicycle, not a triathlon. You had to be a contorsionist to ride it efficiently with the shorter low rise original stem. It always draws a lot of attention at antique bike shows. I've never weighed any of my bicycles. It is pristine.

 

image.jpeg

Edited by Tabletteer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you guys think about spreading the front forks with an automobile jack to widen, and install the rear motor in the front fork?  Then installing a 3 speed internal gear hub in the rear, such as the Sturmey Archer for fat bike 170mm dropouts, like the Sondors has?
https://www.bikeparts.com/BPC166402/sturmey-archer-sx-rk3-3-sp-170mm-disc-hub-36h-silver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that's thinking outside the box, way outside. Nice try, bad idea. While you might get everything to work (sort of), the Bafang hub on the Sondors bike is designed for a rear wheel bike. They do make a front hub motor, as a mater of fact I think I read a post about someone who made a two wheel drive bike by adding a front hub motor to his bike. Putting the stock hub on the front wouldn't make much sense since you would lose your pedal assist among other problems. Also you would have to rewire the bike to get power to the front wheel.

Just my $.02

MisterFixIt1952

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the response! Why would you lose your pedal assist? The front forks would have to be bent out 35mm to make space for the 170mm rear motor dropout.  Not much of an issue for steel forks, and easy to do.  One could even bend a cheap aftermarket fork to save the original fork and wheel as intact.  Rewiring for the front would be easy. 
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Threadless-Fat-Tire-Fork/dp/B00J3VSDQA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471490032&sr=8-1&keywords=fat+bike+fork

One could then later add a mid-drive, such as the BBSHD, and the IGH gears would be ready for it, and it would become an all wheel drive hybrid mid-drive/geared hub. Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice thought! There's the rear wheel dish and possibly disc brake alignment issues to consider too.

Since you have to restring the rear rim for the hub anyway I imagine you could then restring the motor into the front rim and that could address both of the dish and disc items. Add some torque arms and get rocking.

Fat Front wheel drive kits are also available at Lunacycle right now too.

It's way beyond my fiddle level, but I"m not one to talk on that particular point. . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'm riding around on a single speed with a rear derailleur and front shifter installed and cabled up. Just need to make time to pull the rim and chip off the rear freewheel and spin on the 3spd freewheel. Then add some links to the chain.

How many links did you guys add for the 16 - 22 freewheel? (or how many links are in your updated chain)? I have a short cage derailleur and still rocking the 40T chainring.

Edited by Grinchy
grammar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loving the chatter in this thread. So many ideas still flowing!!!

 

@Grinchy - I got 2 standard BMX chains (I think I list the model and photos of the cut chain here somewhere too). I had to cut off a pretty good amount, try it, repeat until my derailleur was where I wanted. Guy at bike shop who tweaked the gearing for me said I got the chain length right. I guess technically I could take it off (its got one removable link) and measure to post. You won't need a ton of the 2nd length of chain, but you still need enough so the derailleur is in the right spot and can move enough to accommodate all speeds. I wasn't paying a ton of attention at this point since I was so excited to get the darn project done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Similar Content

    • By Roy Temper
      Motor Wires and Derailleur Protection
      Protect your motor wires going through the rear axel and if you have a derailleur with a derailleur guard. One of the best I have found is available at REI and is highly effective and provides a great deal more protection than the cheep thin guards sold online. Certainly worth the $20 i paid and if you have an REI near you it's available in most stores or at: REI.com


    • By Brandnew
      Just Ordered Fold X, LCD Screen question?
      I am Gary from Lagrange Ga. I just ordered a Fold X for myself and one for my wife, both with the 7 speed option. The info on the site shows the LCD screen and states 5 gears and 5 levels of assist.  Referring to the LCD screen it states "this option supplies Fold “X” with five gears and five levels of electric pedal assist plus added torque for increased hill-climbing power, even greater range, and improved towing capacity."  I understand the levels of assist but what would the 5 gears be that would be controlled from the LCD display? Does the LCD screen show miles or speed on the original bikes?
    • By 3D-vice
      Know your Gear - Freewheel vs Cassette
      Hey all,
      on my quest to gain more knowledge about bike parts, I stumbled over this nice video:
      Freewheel vs Cassette - What Are They? Can I Convert?
      As a noob, I found this especially helpful, since I'm about to exchange my original rear wheel with a new one. If those with professional knowledge out there have things to add, please feel free to do so.
    • By CrazySondorsRider
      Hello everyone. I've been a lurker here for a while and learned a lot from this forum. Well here's the situation, I got into a small accident last week and ended up bending one of the crank arms. It ran fine just up until tonight when I was riding home from the beach. My bike will no longer freewheel.  For a while if I pedaled enough the bike wouldn't freewheel but after about 2 minutes it would start to freewheel again. I'm at a loss at what I should do, my roommate fixes bikes for a living on the weekends at a local flea market and he says he doesn't have the tools to remove the cog that is on the bike. I have the fat tire Sondors bike from indigogo.
    • By MisterFixIt1952
      I have been working on a  3-Speed Conversion with alienmeatsack, biknut and steve-condie . I have 2 yellow bikes purchased on the third day of the first indigogo campaign, one for myself and one for my lady. I have purchased most of the needed parts. Three speed freewheel cog set, the derailleur and a new 52t sprocket crankset. The only part missing, besides a chain and some misc. hardware, is a shifter. Due to the odd pitch (pitch is the measurement between cogs) of the 3 speed cogset (6.2mm vrs. 5mm-5.5mm found on most 6-10 speed bike cassettes) I am unable to find a suitable index shifter that will work with a shimano derailleur. Apparently, no one makes an index shifter for a 3 speed, only a friction shifter or a twist grip shifter. I would really like to use an index shifter with a gear indicator. Not so much for myself, but to simplify shifting for my ladies bike. She likes things obvious and simple. Myself, I would use whatever I could cludge together, if I had too. With only three speeds it just strikes me that you should just be able to thumb the shift lever and shift up or down with the indicator showing 1, 2 or 3. Yeah, right!! We all know what should be and what is are often miles apart. No one makes a 3 speed rear derailleur shifter, they only make 3 speed front derailleur shifters and the two are entirely different animals with different pull lengths (the length of cable pull required to move the chain to the next cog).
       
      To solve my problem I have decided to investigate building an electronic derailleur controlled by an up-down shift switch. Now this might seem like a complicated solution to the shifter problem but being a mechanical engineer (in a former life) I decided to investigate the possibility. Shimano and Sram both make electronic shifters but at a cost of close to $2,000 for the set, I decided to see what good old DIY ingenuity could accomplish. Never dismiss the capabilities of a broke man with an expensive dream. Necessity truely is the mother of invention. Besides, it sounded like a fun project and being retired, I'm supposed to have time for fun projects, right?
      So, I did what any modern inventor would do, I went to Google for information regarding electronic derailleurs. To my delight, I found quite a bit of information on the subject. It seems that when shimano came out with their $2000 electronic shifter/derailleur setup, for road bikes, it set off a storm of shifter envy among the poor but inventive DIY community. The best website, devoted to the subject of servo shifted derailleurs, was DIYshift.com by Preston Fall (a fellow Oregonian). This site is referred to in almost all of the web articles that I came across. Unfortunately, the site is no longer available having been replaced by what ap[pears to be an Asian porno site. What makes this so unfortunate is the fact that most of the newer articles used DIYshift.com as a model for their designs and they refer to that site for pictures and details leaving little, useful, detailed information, just vague descriptions of the actual mechanism. Also, there are half a dozen uTube videos about DIY shifter projects. As is usual with uTube videos, there is a noticeable lack of hard information about how to build one with builders showing very little detail and few closeups, preferring to tease you with their cleverness and leaving you to fend for yourself figuring out the details.
      The good news is I found the contents of DIyshift.com on Github https://github.com/Diyshift (thank you Google)
      Here is a list of all of the uTube videos devoted to electronic shifters. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=DIY+electronic+derailleur This is worth checking out so you can see what the possabilities are.
      I also found an instructable detailing how to build an electronic derailleur. http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Electronic-Derailleur/
      This project is totally awesome. Not only does it solve the shifter problem but it can easily be upgraded to a larger cassette by changing the programming. Also, I have some ideas to turn this into an auto shift by putting a strain gauge on the crank chain that will automatically upshift or down shift depending on how much force I am putting into peddling. Much better than the cadence system built into the controller. It would be easy to also put together a shifter that would also shift a front derailleur by using a 2 channel servo controller. Do to the cheap cost of servo controller boards, DC-DC converters and arduino processor boards, this project could be put together for about $50 plus the cost of the derailleur. The whole system could be powered by the bike battery or a separate 7.4v Li-On battery, like the kind used in RC models. According to what I've read, a 7.4v battery is good for about 40,000 shifts (a conservative estimate).
       I plan on putting some real effort into this project, including designing a circuit board, shift switch with an led readout showing the gear selected and the servo mount. The software has already been written but I will check it out and make sure that it works with my version and is easy to use. I have an idea that will allow me to program the controller wirelessly using my tablet or a smart phone making it easy to tune the system. I think I will see about putting together a complete shift kit with everything but the servo and the derailleur. I have quite a bit of work to do on this but I will post more information as it comes. I am shopping up parts right now and still waiting for my shimano 105 derailleur to arrive. I'll know more when it gets here.
      Let me know if anyone out there that has any experience with one of these electronic shifters or if there is anyone else interested in this project.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.