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Hello everyone, new owner and i have some questions


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hello everyone, my names manuel i'm new to the forums and i recently received my sandors fat.  so far i love the bike and im more than pleased with my range.  recently i purchased a lcd panel from luna cycle and when i got it i realized it was not compatible with my controller so i ended up buying the controller as well.  well today i received it and it does not seem to be working so i'm hoping someone here will be able to help me out.  i matched all the connectors and the bike does not have any power.  the lcd wont even power on.  when i put the old controller back on everything works fine.  any thoguht on what may be wrong or what i may be doing wrong?  thanks

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This notice in bold orange lettering from the Luna Web Site.

NOTE: THIS CONTROLLER NEEDS TO BE USED WITH OUR DISPLAY TO SHOW SPEED, MOTOR POWER, AND REMAINING BATTERY CAPACITY.  MAY NOT BE COMPATIBLE WITH LATEST SONDORS BIKES.  CHECK TO SEE IF YOUR THROTTLE HAS AN ON/OFF SWITCH, IF IT DOES NOT IT MAY NOT BE COMPATIBLE

If you do not have the on/off switch you'll have to buy one from Sondors or a compatable throttle. 
 
image.jpeg.b8bec3ed6d409c68a55f5c983611290d.jpeg
Reddy
Edited by Reddy Kilowatt
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I didn't plan on doing much upgrading.  I originally just wanted the lcd panel now I'm having to buy all this extra stuff.  But the new throttle should fix the lcd panel not powering on as well? I ask because it doesn't make much sense to me but I'm also completely new to ebikes.

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@SactoEBike it will fix it if you have the throttle that looks like the pic below, then that is the throttle found only on 7-speed models and that throttle is not compatible.  Note it has a female yellow HIGO plug, which I believe is 3-wire (2?  I'd have to look).  What all of the aftermarket controllers want to see is a throttle that uses the 5-pin black HIGO connector, which Sondors used to use universally but has gotten away from in late 2017 with just 7-speed models.  

I could go on about where you can get a compatible throttle, and why Sondors chose to equip only some models with the one that is problematic to upgraders, but you made an oddball claim:  You said you matched all of the connections.

Thats not possible.  Something has to be done wrong.  You have to have not connected the PAS sensor or not connected the throttle.  If you connected the PAS sensor to its yellow HIGO on the controller, that would make sense because the wire length is likely only long enough to reach that far.  That would mean the throttle is not connected and the controller won't work without a throttle.  Dead bike.  If on the other hand you found a way to connect the yellow HIGO on the throttle to the black HIGO on the controller's throttle connection... that won't work either and I hope you didn't bend any pins in there if thats what you did. Never, ever mix colors on plugins.

So ignoring the problems above and hoping for the best outcome, you need to use a proper black 5-pin HIGO connection.  You can either pay ransom for the original Sondors part (the battery gauge is almost useless and the on/off switch is redundant since you have one on the LCD) or buy an aftermarket.  Here's one source:

https://sierraebike.com/collections/sondors-ebike-power-upgrades/products/throttles

This is Kyle Chittock's web site and the 'minimal thumb throttle' is the closest analog to what you have now and they work great.  However if you want to try a full or half-twist throttle those are out there too.  You could also go to Wendy Xie's Sondors throttle page here

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sondors-eBike-Thumb-Throttle-36V-48V-72V-Speed-Throttle-Pasion-e-bike-Electric-Bicycle-Parts/32748520967.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.JWgmuG

And buy her version of your original Bafang BBSHD throttle, where she has done a manufacturing run with the black connectors and a long cord.  Wendy's shop, by the way, may be on Aliexpress in China but she has been a very active member of the Sondors community and sold tons of parts to much of the Sondors online community.  She's got a stellar rep.

Wendy always has stuff in stock but shipping takes longer given the origin point.  Kyle is frequently sold out of stuff but when he has it in stock it a) goes fast and b) ships and delivers fast.  Don't sit around waiting to decide as he has 4 throttles in stock now and I saw that mentioned on the FB group earlier today.

bafang_thumb_throttle_universal_1__66452.1454724737.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

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Thanks for the reply, I spoke with Luna cycle and was told I need a new throttle WITH an on/off switch.  I like the throttle you showed from aliexpress because it looks simple but it doesn't seem to have an on/off switch, will it still work since Luna cycle is saying I need to have the on/off switch or is it a universal throttle that will work with anything?

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Luna is giving out wrong information.  Or more accurately whoever is telling you this is giving you the safe answer and they are someone who is not familiar with the current Sondors product line.  You can choose to do the original throttle.  You have no need for it.  All you need to do is what I described above.

As for the Amazon throttle... look at the product images and you tell me (a hint is below).  

 

51wsJdVKe+L._SL1001_.jpg

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Is there any way to wire the one from amazon so that a stock controller would work properly?    So to fill in the rest of my question on this and to provide a little background.  I purchased the Hot Rod 20 amp controller from luna cycles with their LCD.  I have the Thin7 so I dont have the black connector (aka throttle with on/off switch) that's needed for it to work with the controller.  

I've purchased the amazon version of the throttle and figured I could splice the wires to make it work with the new controller using a waterproof connector.  

So this:

image.png.9a76cecc905077dc3a62b647520e0163.png

 

+ this waterproof connector:

image.png.a277531a4b639ffb71ba355a1336fbb3.png

 

However, I'm not sure what wires from the 6 pin throttle should connect to on the controller.  If I could get a diagram of what the "original sondors controllers" that come stock usually connect to, I should be able to wire it myself.  (Since the Hot Rod 20amp controller works as a direct plug and play solution to the original throttle with the on/off switch)  

Here are my assumptions so far:

image.png.0ea3c05f8949aefbc7e042de3fdfc85a.png

Does anyone know how the cables should match up to work with a stock controller?  Do I need so splice what comes with the amazon version to make it work with the stock controller?  Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks,

Brandon

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

just an update, i got the aliexpress throttle and everything works fine now.  now my lcd display works correctly with my luna cycle controller.  im not sure what i was expecting but with the new controller i really dont notice a difference at all in my bikes performance.  with my next upgrade i think i'll go with a higher volt battery and see what that does.  but in any case thanks for the help, got everything up and running.

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14 hours ago, SactoEBike said:

just an update, i got the aliexpress throttle and everything works fine now.  now my lcd display works correctly with my luna cycle controller.  im not sure what i was expecting but with the new controller i really dont notice a difference at all in my bikes performance.  with my next upgrade i think i'll go with a higher volt battery and see what that does.  but in any case thanks for the help, got everything up and running.

Well, formerly your controller fed 7a continuous and 15a peak.  Now you have a controller that is I believe 10a peak and 20a continuous.  You can work out the percentage increases for yourself.  What a controller does is increase the motor torque you experience.  It will not increase your speed.  More amps just gets you there faster.  

Now... you don't say what bike you have but I am guessing its a basic Sondors and that means a 36v battery.  At 36v, the relative benefits gained are unquestionable, but their absolute numbers may make for not much of a change being felt on the seat of your pants.

I changed to a 20a controller and a 52v battery and you bet that was a kick in the pants.  If amps are torque, voltage is horsepower.  Just like a car, more horsepower means faster top end.  You need both for a hot rod.

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i guess i was just hoping for more.  it accelerates a little better but its a very small increase.  perhaps it will work better going up hills which i havent had the chance to do yet. 

on a side note is there a setting i have to change in my lcd display based on my bikes controller and battery?  i ask because my display reads i am on my very last bar of battery but the LED indicator on my sondors battery says i have 3 of the 4 lights when i press it.  also when i was riding on pure battery my lcd displayed 2 bars then it went to 1 bar and a few minutes later without me letting off the throttle it jumped back to 2 bars of battery.  

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Hey @SactoEBike , Please  review the voltage reading on the LCD. That displays the actual volts in the battery and is pretty accurate when not under significant load, like using full throttle.. You can check it against this chart to find  battery percentage. The bars on the meter you reference,  were showing voltage drop under hard acceleration. You are right,  a 48V or 52V battery will greatly increase speed and acceleration, but Sondors don't make the best hill climbers but many owners use them on hilly routes.

image.thumb.jpeg.49b70a852cae654923f0d52509fc6660.jpeg

 

With your new controller it's delivering about twice the wattage in every PAS setting. If you're only using throttle, the 350watt Bafang can only convert so much electrical energy into motive force and full throttle accelerations will turn a lot of that extra wattage into heat that also translates into a waste of battery power and distance. That might be why you don't perceive much difference. 

Please review : 

 

image.jpeg.f4c0624b2dc6d3f299c2db8744841cda.jpeg

Reddy

Edited by Reddy Kilowatt
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so is there a way to calibrate the battery meter on the LCD display?  just for experimental purposes i rode my bike tonight and my battery showed 3 of 4 lights.  my lcd display showed only the very last bar.  i wanted to see how far i could go using only throttle.  about 20 seconds into my ride the lcd showed no battery bars but using only the throttle i was able to go 5.2 miles and the battery was still going, i just decided to call it a night.  oh and this was also with my daughter and her tandem bike attached to mine, so a few more pounds the bike had to push.  when i parked it, the LED indicator on the battery showed 1 light.  so it seems to me the lcd is off on its battery life.  is there a way to get lcd to display a more accurate battery charge?

also, since i upgraded my controller should i make any adjustments to the C5 or C12 settings?

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Yes you can calibrate the meter, but its all guesswork on your part.   You go into programming mode for the LCD and fiddle with the P5 setting until you get closer to what you think the accurate reading is.  Bigger numbers = more battery capacity allowance.

C5 should almost always be 10.  Thats full power.  If its 6, thats the factory pulling down the power to keep you from crashing and suing them.  If you are uncomfortable with the strong acceleration, the undocumented C5=0 gives full wattage with a 'soft start'.  Not meaningful until you get into 48/52v batteries and 35a controllers and you start getting serious acceleration.  The other C5 settings cut the wattage output of the controller:

03 =Max Wattage divided by 2.00
04 = ... 1.50
05 = ... 1.33
06 = ... 1.25
07 = ... 1.20
08 = ... 1.15
09 = ... 1.10

C12 decides at what battery voltage your controller shuts off to protect the battery from damage due to over-depletion.  Don't mess with that.

C14 is undocumented in that link above.  It is 'PAS increment' and is typically set to '2'.  Range is 1 to 3, where 1 is weak assist strength, 2 is normal and 3 is 'strong'.  What it does is pump more watts in from setting to setting.  Worth playing with to see what happens but at 36v not likely to be a game changer... but by all means see if you like it different.

Lastly, C1 determines the startup sensitivity of PAS.  Lower number is less sensitive.  Range is 00, 01 and 02.  If you are set to 00, for the sake of argument lets say it takes half a crankarm turn to engage PAS.  Setting to 01 would maybe make PAS kick in at 1/4 turn, and 02 makes it engage at 1/8 turn.  I just made those numbers up to give you the idea.  Here again, fiddle with it until you get what you like.  No wrong answers.

the power chart in another post above is known to be inaccurate which is why Luna Cycle removed them from the web.  They are better than nothing unless you have a more accurate chart.  Here is the accurate 36v chart:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rw6FG8yYhi6H1HZMKBX8ibnmLSBQuTo_2nkJ6qLEUzA/edit?usp=sharing

Power charts are by their nature not going to take into account the behavior of individual cells (or how the chart is affected by the age of the pack), but these charts are as good as you can get.  The calcuulation method is shown, and Other voltage charts are linked on the page.  Probably most importantly, there is a quick-ref chart on the page you can snip out and put on your bars if the whole chart overwhelms you.  That will give you a 10-step gauge you can use to figure out what your voltage readout on your LCD means (you should never depend on the graphical battery gauge as its frankly never going to be more than just inaccurate.  Nature of the beast.  Learn what the voltage numbers mean.  Will only take sticking that quick ref on your bars).

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