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25 amp controller in a Fold X

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25 amp controller in a Fold X

I'll let the pictures do most of the talking for now. You'll also need a aftermarket LCD to go with your controller. Two other items you need to be aware of are, you'll need a green extension cable for the LCD. 12" should be long enough.  The 25 amp controller will probably have 6 wires going to the throttle, but the Fold throttle only has 3 wires. Pay attention to this, the blue, and yellow connect together, taking the place of the on switch. The green is unused. On a fatty it powers the Power meter on the throttle body, you don't have one. The last 3 are throttle red 5v +, Black 5v -, and white is the signal.

Fold Controller.jpg

25 amp controller Fold.jpg

Controller wire 3 way fold.jpg

controller end plare fold.jpg

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The simple answer is a slight increase in speed but an increase in acceleration, torque and reduced range. Again simply stated an increase in Voltage translates into more speed and Amperage mote torque. Please review; http://preview.tinyurl.com/ReddysElectricMath  

http://tinyurl.com/ReddysBatteryGuide

image.jpeg.b8bec3ed6d409c68a55f5c983611290d.jpeg

Reddy

Edited by Reddy Kilowatt
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On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 10:55 PM, bushkey said:

Whats the 25 amp controller going to do for you?  More top speed?  

Not really much more top speed, maybe 1 mph.  A lot more torque though, and it gets to top speed a lot faster.

 

Range is definitely affected, but only if you accelerate harder. Riding at the same speed as before, you get the same range as before. 

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@bushkey, You can't increase the amp rating of your controller with out reducing range. It would be disingenuous and misleading to state otherwise. Increasing the ability to send more current to the motor and then not utilizing that ability would certainly be a giant waste of money and time. Without Changing LCD Settings, in an aftermarket LCD (Luna, ElectroBikeWorld or Velomobile Shop) to detune the controllers functions and returning to the same low output as the Sondors Fold original, the controller now will be delivering many times the current output in every PAS setting and Throttle position. My own Highly Modified Sondors Original, now the Electric Black Lightening, delivers over 1500watts with it's larger controller, with the slightest depression of the throttle. That drains watt-hours fast. It's a  challenge to maximize range while riding by using only the min PAS setting for the terrain, wind and desired velocity, including PAS 0 on any down hill slopes. Of course if your only going to use your Fold for short squirts around the neighborhood and not ride and pedal it like an eBike, range might not be a concern. There is a price to pay for pushing all that energy to the motor and without going for a bigger EXTERNAL MOUNTED BATTERY. The little Folds battery compartment can't accomidate anything larger and is destine for only the minor modifications for performance. 

image.jpeg.b8bec3ed6d409c68a55f5c983611290d.jpeg

Reddy

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Great thanks.  So, I assembled my Fold X yesterday and was surprised how gutless it is compared to other e-bikes I have tried.  With the Bigger battery and motor on the X, I was assuming it had more torq and Hill climbing ability.   I live around lots of hilly streets, and I am disappointed.  I immediately got on the net to research the possibility of more power and torq. 

Please keep us updated on your new controller upgrade. 

Also, what aftermarket LCD is best with the new controller?  

Thsnks a ton!

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1 hour ago, bushkey said:

Great thanks.  So, I assembled my Fold X yesterday and was surprised how gutless it is compared to other e-bikes I have tried.  

Bushkey, this is what happens when you manufacture an ebike that actually tries to fit in under the power restriction laws.  Very likely lawyers were involved who pointed out that speed laws do not expressly provide for electronically limiting wattage and - in the case of the KT controllers our bikes use, that limitation is imprecise at best.  The beauty of the Sondors platform is you can go out and replace one more or less commonly available controller with another and more or less invisibly solve the regulatory issue.

The Sondors controllers are 7a continuous, 15 amps max ... which is not robust as you have noticed.  However, using nominal voltage on the 48v battery,  48v x 15 amps = 720 watts of final output.  The US federally-mandated limit is "less than 750 watts" (not "750 watts" as commonly stated).

The Rad-branded bikes, on the other hand, use the lower, 'continuous' rating on their controllers to do their math.  Thats not going to fly if the government ever actually starts enforcing power limits, which apparently is becoming more likely; hence Sondors' conservative approach in 2017.

Sondors is giving you the platform at a dramatic discount. Its an open platform that for another $65 or so will let you nearly double its final output.

The best controller is up to you.  You can go 20a or 25a.  They are all made by the same manufacturer, just some have different guts and wiring connections.  If I were you I'd follow Biknut's lead as these days the 25a controllers originally designated as 'Thin-compatible' are now compatible with all Sondors models.  Sierra EBike's 'triangle-compatible' controllers have slightly different wire lengths but those are the ones you want.  When you can get them in stock.  Mine already shipped :-)

And don't forget that, for a Fold, you also want to buy an LCD cable extension (green HIGO) and a PAS cable extension (yellow HIGO).  Both are cheap and you can just barely live without them... but why suffer?

Edited by MattRobertson
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Thank you Matt.  I’m a sponge right now as this is my first Ebike.  So the $65 you quoted to improve the output is the price of the new controller?  I will buy the 25a controller, and the extension cables, but what LCD is compatible with it?  Then once I buy the right one, it needs the parameters adjusted?  How will I know the parameter numbers to input?

Thanks again!

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1 hour ago, Rob88 said:

So how does it run?  Are you popping wheelies and climbing stairs?  Please post a video.

It's definitely not wheelie prone, but it's possible if you try hard. Since the Fold's chain stay is 2" shorter than a Fatty, that naturally puts more weight closer to the rear wheel, and makes it easier to wheelie. 

 

With the 25 amp controller, you get more torque, but not much extra top speed. Acceleration feels stronger all through the rev range, and it's especially noticeable off the line. More torque = more acceleration = more fun, most people will agree. Part of the good acceleration comes from the low  weight, and low gearing provided by the small wheel size, but that's cutting top speed to just slightly under 25 mph. With the Fatty's big 26" wheels I can get almost 28 mph.  

 

I think with a light weight rider, a modified Fold like this will accelerate about the same rate as a modified 750 Fatty with a heavy rider. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, bushkey said:

Great thanks.  So, I assembled my Fold X yesterday and was surprised how gutless it is compared to other e-bikes I have tried.  With the Bigger battery and motor on the X, I was assuming it had more torq and Hill climbing ability.   I live around lots of hilly streets, and I am disappointed.  I immediately got on the net to research the possibility of more power and torq. 

Please keep us updated on your new controller upgrade. 

Also, what aftermarket LCD is best with the new controller?  

Thsnks a ton!

I felt the same way the first time I rode the Fold. Then I found out the LCD comes from the factory with the C5 setting selected to baby fat, 00. You have to program C5=10 to get full power off the line. The 00 setting restricts the throttle at low speed, but eventually allows full power at top speed. It's especially sucky off the line, but that's it's purpose. To make it safer for new riders.

 

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20 minutes ago, biknut said:

I felt the same way the first time I rode the Fold. Then I found out the LCD comes from the factory with the C5 setting selected to baby fat, 00. You have to program C5=10 to get full power off the line. The 00 setting restricts the throttle at low speed, but eventually allows full power at top speed. It's especially sucky off the line, but that's it's purpose. To make it safer for new riders.

 

Ya, I’m a crazy extreme athlete that was instantly bummed on the lack of power and torq...ha!   Looks like I have another project to add to my list.  

Much appreciation for the help. 

~Aaron B.  Redondo Beach

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Biknut . . . I looked at all those websites and the wiring looks pretty much plug and play, but based on your photos and description, it seems like you had to do a lot of rewiring.  Which exact model did you get? Any idea which website or which model (Sierra seems to have a few) is closest to plug and play for the Fold X?  Thanks.

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 I just bought controller, LCD, cables and  compatible throttle from Kyle at Sierra.  Kyle was awesome, and his stuff is pretty simple straightforward plug and play.  I originally was going to buy the 25 amp controller from him, but he told me there’s more modifications and more work involved to get that in.  So I settled on the 20 amp since it’s closer in size to the original and should just slide right in.  Kyle stated that I should still get more power/torque and more TopSpeed using the 20 amp controller and his LCD.   While the 25 would be the most power, sounds like the 20 might just be fine for me.  I basically Got scared that the 25 amp would be too much fiddling around modifying.  I went the path of least  resistance.  5 more amps and a more customizable LCD/Controller will give more torq and speed options.  I will report on it after I do the install  next week.  

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1 hour ago, Rob88 said:

Biknut . . . I looked at all those websites and the wiring looks pretty much plug and play, but based on your photos and description, it seems like you had to do a lot of rewiring.  Which exact model did you get? Any idea which website or which model (Sierra seems to have a few) is closest to plug and play for the Fold X?  Thanks.

Rob, the reason I had to solder some wires was 2 reasons. I wanted a power takeoff for lighting, but I didn't want to run off the extra red wire. And 2, I want a  half throttle, but no one sells one with the correct plug so I had to make my own. 

I think Kyle has full throttles what are plug, and play with his controllers.

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So while I wait for my project "new controller" parts to come, I learned about the stock LCD, and made some adjustments.  changing the max speed to 72, C4 to 3, and the C5 setting to 10.  Definitely happier and more optimistic with the 20 amp controller that I ordered.  I now have more Torq, better power assist, and faster overall speed.  By changing the settings, I now have a top throttle only speed of 24 mph.  4 more then before.  I can only imagine I will be more then happy with the new 20 amp controller.  I would probably kill myself with a 25...HA!

 

Edited by bushkey

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On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 11:36 PM, bushkey said:

So while I wait for my project "new controller" parts to come, I learned about the stock LCD, and made some adjustments.  changing the max speed to 72, C4 to 3, and the C5 setting to 10.  Definitely happier and more optimistic with the 20 amp controller that I ordered.  I now have more Torq, better power assist, and faster overall speed.  By changing the settings, I now have a top throttle only speed of 24 mph.  4 more then before.  I can only imagine I will be more then happy with the new 20 amp controller.  I would probably kill myself with a 25...HA!

 

I honestly don't know if there's any difference, the 25 is probably overkill.

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The install was quick and easy.  The difference in torque is quite noticeable.  The bike will climb steep hills now without pedaling, which it couldn't do before.  I went with the standard wiring, so it was plug and play all the way.  Highly recommended upgrade!

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