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@3D-vice, thanks for the info on your setup    

@edwin - According to Kyle from Velomobile, he runs that very setup on his (48/30 + 25a controller) on the stock motor with no problems. Keep in mind that these motors are rated at a wattage that

Have the 25A controller installed. It was pretty straightforward to fab a bracket to mount it at the same angle as the battery out of some sheet tin (metal shingle from home depot, $0.69). Total

I just installed the Velomobile Shop LCD and upgraded controller on my Sondors this evening and can attest that it works and is quite lovely. I didn't really do much changing to the settings, as I like the top speed and PAS level as they are. But being ready for upgrades in battery etc = good.

Thanks for the list, next is a faster charger and then a bigger battery for this guy!

 

Velomobile has this trianglular 48v 20.3AH triangle lithium in stock for $549 USD:

http://store.sondorsforum.com/collections/sondors-ebike-power-upgrades/products/48v-20-3ah-triangle-lithium-battery?variant=11159784323

It claims to triple range.

The Lunacycle "bottle" battery replacement is 36v 13.6AH and fits the stock battery carriage and runs $324, offering a claimed 50% increase in range.

http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/36v/36v-13-6ah-panasonic-bottle-battery-sondors-compatible-upgrade-replacement/

And then there's their Luna Storm pack which is available in two flavors for $560 USD. I'm not sure what it brings to the picture beyond lots more capacity and speed.

http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/36v/luna-storm-battery-pack/

And then they have their 52v Samsung INR 18650 52V 12.5AH battery pack, $460 USD. It also appears to part rivers and remove hair with its performance. Not sure what it brings to the party ultimately. But its there for the power hungry

http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/52v/52v-samsung-inr-18650-25r-52v-12-5ah-storm-power/

I am ok with spending that kind of money if my controller can handle it and if it truly brings me a huge increase in range. I don't care about going 25-40MPH, I want to go 20MPH for 3-5x the length or use PAS mode and get 100+ miles on a charge.

Certainly tempting but I believe many of these minus the bottle battery require a hot rodded controller and special chargers.

If anyone has input on these, I think I and others would appreciate it.

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Has anyone done any testing of what signal is being sent or not sent from the upgraded controllers headlamp/brake light plug? It has 2 pins in it, so one can assume it's probably just sending basic info over this, either an off/on or resistance change to tell something in the lamp/brake to come on.

I was considering putting a voltage tester on mine to see if its completing a circuit, sending voltage one way or the other, or changing resistance, etc so I could figure out how to wire a light/brake controller to it without buying a custom made one.

IMG_4007 2.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
12 minutes ago, Crasslee said:

Hey Andi. I joined a few days ago. Had a look here, as you suggested. Who's selling a replacement battery (hopefully better than stock) to Europe?

Lee.

Hey Lee, 

here is the replacement battery, as promised: 

36v 13.6ah Panasonic Bottle Battery Sondors Compatible Upgrade / Replacement

30$ fixed shipping cost & its better then stock.

- Andi 

 

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4 minutes ago, Crasslee said:

Ah, I already tried Luna Cycle. They emailed me a couple of days ago to inform me they can't ship batteries outside of the US. Any other ideas?

Thanks. Lee.

Oh, I'm sorry. 
Wendy can ship to Europe. So here is the battery from her

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/passion-ebike-48V-11-6Ah-electric-bicycle-bike-battery-for-sondors-Ebike-Parts-Battery-for-Panasonic/1088910_32456537221.html

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Thanks mate. It's pretty expensive. But i need a spare. The original only does about 11 or 12 miles on pedal assist 2/3 here in London. If you hear of any other suppliers. Please let me know.

Thanks again. Lee 

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@Crasslee have you tried Velomobileshop.com? If you are using PAS 2-3, you are really going to want to go up to a 36v or 48v battery, and replace the stock controller for sure if you haven't already. A 36v should give you more then 20 maybe even 30 miles at PAS 2-3 with the stock motor depending on the wind and hills I'd say since it's about 3x more battery.

Their batteries come from China so I don't see why they'd have an issue shipping to you since they are international. Kyle's a good guy and a fan of the bike, so he carries stuff he thinks us users will use and uses himself.

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Yeah, I've bought from them before. Unfortunately the only battery they stock at the moment, is that big 48v/20ah monster. Although at $589, it's a little out of my price range. I am looking to upgrade my controller. So I'll get one of theirs. Will a better controller get a little better performance out of my original 36v/8.8ah battery?

I recently managed to pick up that rack you recommend, for just $25 here in the UK. I'd been after something comparable over here for a while. So thanks for that.

Lee

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39 minutes ago, Crasslee said:

Yeah, I've bought from them before. Unfortunately the only battery they stock at the moment, is that big 48v/20ah monster. Although at $589, it's a little out of my price range. I am looking to upgrade my controller. So I'll get one of theirs. Will a better controller get a little better performance out of my original 36v/8.8ah battery?

Check the site recently? Kyle added the 36v/20ah (plus the 48v/20ah and 30ah) triangle battery for me last week and has them in the China warehouse now. Still pricey but if you are doing PAS 2-3, it's a must have to get good mileage. I got the 36v with their upgraded controller to get 30-40 miles on throttle and 75-90 PAS (Im hoping for this but honestly expecting a tad less just to be realistic.).

Glad the rack is working for you, I wrote the company to let them know it fits the Sondors and we are all liking it, they were going to make note of that for sales purposes too I think.

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Thanks for the advice dude. I'd been on their site today. But was looking for a bottle battery, not the triangle one. Although I might wait, and save up for that 48v monster. Actually I literally just ordered the 36/48 20amp controller. Hopefully that'll help a little, until I can upgrade the battery. I think one of the reasons I get less range is my weight. I'm approximately 220lbs. I know that's gotta make a difference.

Yeah, I was really happy to spot that rack on here. All of the ones I'd seen that would fit here in the UK, were $140 plus. So you saved me some money to invest on power upgrades ?

Thanks again. Lee

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I honestly don't think there is a bottle battery that goes behind the upgraded Panasonic 36v/13.6ah battery. I think that is as much as they can pack into the bottle form factor. And to be honest I would not be surprised if the mounting harness melted if you did anything higher, especially using PAS higher levels and throttle. I've heard of people with the stock battery melting the battery connectors using a lot of throttle and high PAS settings for hills

An upgraded controller and maybe a 500w motor would also help some but you'll need more battery. Some people buy extra batteries and carry one or two extra to plug in for more range. Others go with the bigger battery, etc.

Another option to consider is changing your gearing to a 3-speed to have more pedal capability. You can put a hill and top speed gear in place in any combo to fit your riding style and use your "human battery" to power the bike a bit and reduce battery usage some. Or you can re-gear it to fit your riding speed.

Have you tried changing the settings for PAS and the cadence sensor to see if you can eek out a little more juice at your chosen PAS settings?

As far as weight goes, I was once 250lbs. So I feel you on that. Don't let that be your focus, the hills, wind, temperature and everything else all affect the speed and range. So, there are lots of people who are anywhere from 130-350lbs riding these babies. Just figure out what works for you battery/motor/controller and adapt and enjoy the ride. And, if it counts, every time you pedal, some of that 220lbs is going to slowly melt away. Who knows, by end of summer you may be telling us you are 210-200, or less. :D

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just ordered the 48V(36V) 750w Bafang threaded motor. My hope is to see if the guts/gears fit in the stock motor's housing and work, and if not, to do a proper relacing to put the motor in. I got it from eBay since I couldn't find any of the usual shops with one in stock, or I'd link to it. I don't want to do that until I get it and am sure it's good before linking for everyone.

I'll do a full separate thread on my swap or re-lace experience with it. My new battery should run it, just won't use it's full potential. I almost went with the 500 but I've read that the 350 is very close to the 500 and is actually just pushed towards the 500's capabilities anyway. Which jives with the data my Wendy LCD tells me when I throttle full and see over 500w going to the motor.

 

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On 1.3.2016 at 2:30 PM, Andi said:

Thanks Andi for the link! I also had tried LunaCycle before and I can confirm that they do not send internationally, unfortunately. Good to see the Panasonic high-capacity bottle battery is available through AliExpress.

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For those interested, here are photos of what you get from Velomobile's Shop when you get one of their triangle batteries. This is a 36v/20ah upgrade, which comes with the charger and a wiring harness. The hardness itself plugs directly into the battery and then you have to connect it to the bike's controller's positive and negative. I'm going to go to Radio Shack and get something like the connector below to make removal easy and fool proof.

It's charging now and the charger's fan sounds like a jet engine. I have no idea how long it needs to charge but I'm going to wire and test tonight or tomorrow and then go for a proper full ride as soon as the weather is better.

According to the specs, I should get 2.5x more mileage from this vs the stock battery.

I also have yet another controller of the 25a variety here to install at some point as well. I am hoping to get a second larger 48/30 battery to put it to use, and when my new motor arrives I expect I'll be able to batter take advantage of the new controller and battery.

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02740151_00_bdfda089-824d-430c-b2d2-1057316fddbf_grande.jpg

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It's duct taped. Which is not uncommon. The others I've seen are shrink wrapped usually poorly. This one was taped with great care and is super solid.

Inside are 90 or so Panasonic 18650 batteries wired in a mix of parallel and series plus a BMS circuit to protect the battery and keep it from discharging too far etc. Kyle says its rated for over 700 cycles. 4 hours to charge from dead.

 

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Battery works great! I used the connectors for power/ground from the stock controller. Removed the old battery mount and put gorilla tape over the hole, taped all the wires out of the way and the battery sits snugly into the compartment. It performs identically to the stock battery except for 2.5x battery life.

Before the swap, I maxed out the speed limit and then held the back end up and just let the wheel run at max speed. It hit 27.7 MPH, so that is the very top speed it can go with stock battery and LCD/controller to unlock the 18-20MPH limit. Same with the new battery since its still just 36v. When my 750w motor arrives I'll be able to see what it can do and compare.

Riding in real life with my weight and the bikes weight, wind, hills etc, I averaged 18-23MPH, a top speed of just over 24.3MPH, and lowest was 12-14 on a hilly windy stretch. I ran a 8 (ish) mile run all throttle maxed out as much as I could except for lights and tight turns and it was awesome. Im going to put the 25A controller on this coming weekend and re-arrange and get the battery situated more safely.

After my 8 miles all throttle no pedaling, the LCD display was just missing 1 bar and that didn't disappear until on the way back. If i were to do the purchase again, I would probably spring for the extra few bucks for the 48/30 battery, but I'm very happy with the purchase.

And I can sell the stock battery/key/harness and get a little $$$ back to help fund a 48/30 battery. :D

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@alienmeatsack

I bought the 48v triangle battery from velomobileshop. incl the display and controller. They did ship to Europe (Holland) Now i was wondering, (I still have to receive the package), will this battery destroy my sondors stock motor? because the motor is 36v and the battery 48v

And question 2, where is the best place to buy a 48v motor? for me living in the eu ?

thanks
edwin 

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@edwin - According to Kyle from Velomobile, he runs that very setup on his (48/30 + 25a controller) on the stock motor with no problems.

Keep in mind that these motors are rated at a wattage that is well below what they are capable of. It's usually what they can handle safely but just below, to be on the safe side.  Like the EU models are running "250w" motors which are really just lower rated 350w motors typically. And the 350w's have been tested to 500w with no problems, if you put an LCD on yours, you will see that using the throttle actually sends over 500w to the motor on the stock battery and upgraded 20A controller as well at peak, I believe around 552w. If you ran this constant, and ran it uphill against the wind (there's a joke in there somewhere), yes you might burn out your motor. But you would do the very same thing on stock battery and controller constant uphill against the wind for an extended period as well depending on rider and bike weight.

The 350w Bafang (8Fun) is rated at 36 and 48 volts. And many of their motors are actually spec rated from like 250-500watts. I believe our stock model is technically rated 250-750. But the "spec" is 350 because that is the safe zone for max life.

By their specs, even the 750 is barely different in its specs from the 350, but they dont go into temps and cooling which are usually the killer of motors.

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Here is my 36v/20ah battery and 25A controller mounted. I am using velcro to keep the battery from wobbling with a very thin layer of padding taped on the bottom over the gap where the frame is visible. There's gorilla tape over that.

The wires are all run out the way along the top to the controller and taped/ziptied, and the controller is setting in a little nest of foam with Gorilla tape and velcro to keep it in place but make it easy to remove.

The battery is resting against a piece of foam with Gorilla tape where it touches the controller as well. I am going to make a simple L bracket that will use the bolt holes on the frame to stop it from sliding down to the controller this week and that will have foam padding on it as well, then I'll remove the tapered foam pad that is there now. I also plan on replacing the 2 hex bolts behind (to the right in the photos) the controller with something flat headed so I can velcro the controller to the frame and remove the padding foam to make more room for it to breathe.

I've taped off the "on switch" plug on the right side of the bike and the one on the left will be taped or possibly turned into a vent for the cooling system. For that, I've got a small DC fan that is going into the box to pull air through the whole box to keep it from overheating in the summer. It will just pull air out of the hole at the very top front where the wires pass through to the handlebars, using the other holes in the box as inputs for the air.

The main wiring harness will also be taped or ziptied down once I get the above work done.

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alienmeatsack, thanks for your information. Meanwhile  Kyle from Velomobile informed me that he tried to kill the stock motor with the battery, but he did not managed to. So i am much more confident now. 

I'll just have to wait for it to arrive..

thnx
edwin

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