jabomano 0 Report post Posted June 3, 2017 Cyclone Range I have a Sondors Fat Bike with a L3 52v triangle battery, stock 350w hub motor, upgraded LCD and 25a controller. I'm getting almost 70 miles with pedal assist #2. With throttle only I'm getting 50+ miles. I live in south Florida and all of my riding is glass top flat with no off road. I'm thinking of having the Cyclone installed along with upgraded controller but am afraid of my range being cut drastically. I want to leave the stock 350w hub motor installed and have 2 throttles. One for the hub and one for the Cyclone.Any thought s on the range reduction?Thanksnewbie Ray Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andi 131 Report post Posted June 3, 2017 Hey @Houshmand Moarefi maybe you could help to answer this question?:) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reddy Kilowatt 376 Report post Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) You should start here but the current requirement between a 350 watt hub motor and a 3000 watt mid drive should be pretty obvious that the range will be fractional. https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/knowledge-base/general-aa/31957-faq-estimating-the-range-for-an-electric-bike https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/knowledge-base/general-aa/28938-faq-electric-bike-range-calculations Edited June 4, 2017 by Tabletteer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jabomano 0 Report post Posted June 4, 2017 Thanks for the links. I know the Cyclone will give me a shorter range but was wondering just how much shorter on average. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reddy Kilowatt 376 Report post Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) No one can give you specific numbers, those require real world usage, but since you can't use Pedal Assist at the speeds you'll be attaining and you'll be relying on throttle only for the Cyclone and you'll now have two motors drawing current, one at many times your original 350w Bafang current draw, the reduction will be substantial. More than one half I'd guesstimate. There has only been one such conversion reported. That was done by Eric Hicks and he produced it as an example to entice Sondors Owners and sold it as soon as the article was published. There are other issuses that need to be addressed when adding the Cyclone. It's powerful and will use the existing drive train, none of which is designed for that much power. Stopping it will be of concern and an upgrade to the better brakes, than the cheapest examples in eBiking, will be required to make it safe. To give the Cyclone equipped Sondors the most utility the 7 speed gearing option is mandatory if you plan to pedal. Then there is the battery. The L3 pack of yours uses 4 year old battery Li Ion technology and chemistry, the Pasasonis NCR 18650 PF 2800mah cells, neither designed for long range or high output. That's why the L3 packs are cheaper than packs with 3400mah cells which are nominal for the Cyclone. Eric's used the Luna Storm pack with Samsung 18650 25R cells and that is a high output pack that cost more that $800, tax and shipping. Maintenance will be high. Parts replacment will be required in the drive train. That much power will be hard on chains, chain rings, and freewheels. But you'll end up with the fastest Sondors on the streets of Florida.... https://www.electricbike.com/watt-hours/ Edited June 12, 2017 by Tabletteer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jabomano 0 Report post Posted June 4, 2017 Thanks for the input. I'll Luna next week. Possibly sell my L3 and stock Sondors battery to upgrade to the Storm Pack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reddy Kilowatt 376 Report post Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) One last input on this upgrade thread. I believe at a starting point, this is the new Gold, Er...Red standard in Sondors upgrades but still requiring a few tweaks to tame it's potential. Should prove much more robust than a Cyclone Build. Edited June 4, 2017 by Tabletteer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Houshmand Moarefi 69 Report post Posted June 12, 2017 Thank you @Andi and @Tabletteer @jabomano, your L3 battery range while on the stock motor and 25a controller is very close to what I have experienced on the same set up, that tells me we are close in weight and have the a similar riding style. I do not have any experience with the cyclone motor, so I won't be able to share any real world test results. Here is one way to try to guess your new battery range. Multiply your current battery and amp hours to come up with your total watt hours. Then do the same with your new motors' batter ah and controller amps. If you divide your current watt hours by controller amps, that will give you the number of hours you can ride. Now do the same with your new set up. Compare the new number of hours to the old. Use that same ratio against the 70 miles L3 range and you should see the new range. This model is not exact and won't replace the real world range test. Of course this is only accurate if you stick with the same riding style and average speed. hope this helps. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jabomano 0 Report post Posted June 13, 2017 Houshmand What I really want to do is install the Cyclone and keep the 750w hub motor on the rear with two throttles. That way I have the power, speed and range. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Houshmand Moarefi 69 Report post Posted June 13, 2017 Are you planning to add a second battery or share your L3 with both systems? if adding a second battery, then you will have two independent systems. This will allow you to keep the best of both motors, super long range while having access to speed on demand. if you are sharing a battery, then your range will suffer the moment you use the cyclone. Something to keep in mind is the need for a high amp output battery to accommodate both motors simultaneously. You will also need a battery output splitter cable. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jabomano 0 Report post Posted June 13, 2017 The easiest solution would be to share and suffer on the range. Lindsey does have the 60v L60 but it's cut down to 17.3ah. The best solution would be the 2 battery system but then the question is where to put it so the bike doesn't looked hacked. A bottle battery on the rack but then there goes the Ibera. Lindsey could make a triangle battery that would take up the entire Sondors case and the controller would have to be mounted outside somewhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Houshmand Moarefi 69 Report post Posted June 13, 2017 Would you believe this bike has two batteries? L3 52V 20ah and LT48 48V 14ah 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jabomano 0 Report post Posted June 13, 2017 A beast for sure. Battery is on the rack but can you carry anything? Do you have 2 hub motors and how many gears? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Houshmand Moarefi 69 Report post Posted June 13, 2017 Two 750 watts hub motors, 7 Speeds, 53T front crank, 35a controller rear, 25a controller front, dual LCD and throttles and they are both pedal assist operated. With the current set up, this bike has a top speed of 34mph and a range of 110 miles. The bag is still has plenty of room for two cable locks, and a rain jacket. I can also fit a L3 or L48 battery in the bag for super long rides. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jabomano 0 Report post Posted June 13, 2017 Can you send me a photo of the rear battery? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Houshmand Moarefi 69 Report post Posted June 13, 2017 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jabomano 0 Report post Posted June 13, 2017 Thanks for the photos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reddy Kilowatt 376 Report post Posted June 14, 2017 How about sharing some photos of your modified Sondors? Did I miss them in one of your posts? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Houshmand Moarefi 69 Report post Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Yes @jabomano, let's see some pictures. Edited June 14, 2017 by Houshmand Moarefi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jabomano 0 Report post Posted June 14, 2017 Really not much to show. I have the L3 battery and the 350w stock motor. I'll be putting on the 750w motor and 35a controller on Friday though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reddy Kilowatt 376 Report post Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Well, I think we all have reason to show off our bikes. There might be individual owner pages, to feature and document the changes and upgrades that we make, when the new forum build takes place. One thing ive found universal about Sondors Owners, we all love to talk about our rides and what we've done to make them our own. The fact is, we all obtained the most universal great deal in eBiking and a perfect starting point to create our expressive masterpiece. They are the focus of pride for all of us. Keep us updated as you upgrade. Edited June 14, 2017 by Tabletteer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattRobertson 182 Report post Posted June 16, 2017 jabomano I would give serious thought to following Houshmand's lead like I did and go with a 2x750. With two 750 watt motors you will be just over 4100 watts of peak power on a bike that has none of the weaknesses Tabletteer described above in terms of wear/tear. Plus by transmitting power in AWD fashion you will be changing the nature of the bike for the better. Check out that thread for tons of detail on that. get a sandwich and a beer first because it will take awhile to read. Good luck no matter which way you go! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marco 1 Report post Posted March 30, 2018 OK, so what... Nine months on, did you progress here @jabomano?? FYI - I will hopefully be adding to the Dual Drive 750 tread that has been referenced here in or around June/July 2018 as my Fat is on pre order for May and Wendy at pasion ebike had an Easter special I simply couldn't say no too. HUGE!! thanks will of course go to Houshmand, Matt & Reddy for humoring another noob. And don't worry Reddy, I haven't forgotten what you said.... A great eBike, but a crappy eMotorbike! So I fully intend to peddle as well 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
