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MattRobertson

The Magura Brake Project

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Magura is a well-known German brake/accessory manufacturer.  I saw a German rider post pictures of his bike with Magura MT5e brakes installed.  these are 4-piston monsters that can use 4 independent pads per caliper.  The levers are super-whiffy reach-adjustable numbers that are suitably, similarly high quality.

I have yet to fully unlock the potential of my front 750 motor, but even running the throttle on just the rear 750 to make a light, I go from a cruise of 26 mph to 30.  And stop lights being what they are, they love to turn yellow about half the time when I am going full tilt but too far away to make it.

A bare pair of BB7 calipers from China are about US$44.  Cheap and easy.  And a good upgrade.  But I hate half measures and its easy for me to see with my two motors, two batteries, rack, tools, panniers, lead foot and XL self I am exactly the guy who needs strong brakes.  So... crap.  I pulled the trigger on two axles worth of MT5e brakes.

I'm starting this thread to document the job. I know cabled brakes of all sorts.  No mysteries there.  Hydraulics... Totally different story.  So I'll be learning.

647x559__0014_mt5e_01.png

First of all: Price.  Go google these brakes and look at the price.  Now forget that number and go to this web site:

https://hollandbikeshop.com/

They ship worldwide so translate the site to your language and currency.  THEN search on "Magura MT5e".  A single MT5e brakeset will commonly run US$125 to US$175.  That includes one axle worth of brakes:  Caliper, cable and lever connected and pre-bled with fluid (you will need to resize the cable as the kits come with a generous 2200mm which is way more than you need).  Holland Bike Shop will sell you this package for around US$80 (varies day to day given Euro-to-dollar exchange rates) and they will ship to the U.S. for US$39.  It ends up being just under US$200 for a full set, delivered, minus rotors.

I found a different deal.  MT5e brakes and 2200mm of cable for US$124 from a U.S. seller with arrival to me next week.  Identical kit from different sellers is going for US$217.

https://goo.gl/tjnUuT 

There's only one left.  Sorry.  But you can always get about the same deal from the other sellers above.

So what kind of cutoff connector do these brakes use?

600x600-129880_14854185166654.jpg

Gee that looks familiar :-)  So single-motor bikes will need an extension cable.  2x750 builds will need a different Y splitter than I have at present (to keep things clean I am not going to plug an extension into my Y adapter but will do a different Y that splits off outside the battery box this time... live and learn).  As such I will be ordering a different Y from e-bike-technologies.de.  And I guess selling off the set I have in case anyone is interested.

My LBS can do the install for me, but I am going to give it a shot myself.  Magura has some good videos on cable cutting and brake bleeding.  I also have a bleeding kit on the way, and when I see exactly what cable fittings are int the package I'll decide what cable bits and tools to buy.  

More to come...

EDIT:  

Follow the posts below and you will see that when this post was originally written, I had not committed to Magura rotors, which I eventually did.  Read on to see why (short version - they are thicker and matched to the piston travel of these brakes).  I will note here that the rotors to buy are the Magura Storm HC which are the maximum-duty version of rotor compatible with these brakes.  Buy them with your order from Holland Bike Shop and save on shipping.  Or buy them alone on EBay.  Prices are about the same from either vendor.

Edited by MattRobertson
Added comments on rotors
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Well the brake project is complete.  Simplest way I can describe the aftermath is that with the Magura MT5e brakes in play, you can forget about the brakes and just ride.  No rotors rubbing, no noise.  They self-adjust.  Once you dial in the amount of stopping power you want (via an adjustment screw that changes the amount of travel on the lever) you can forget about them.  Need to change the pads?  They have this cool magnetic thing going on where you just push the pad into the caliper and magnets grab it and the pad pops itself into place perfectly.  The cables from the caliper are attached via an adjustable banjo bolt that lets you angle the cable so it tucks in perfectly behind the fork or chainstay.  the brakes are so low-profile, they fit entirely behind the chainstay or fork.  Have trouble fitting a rack over disc brakes?  Not if these are them.

20170412_184526_1280.jpg

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While I have rather a lot of experience working with/on surprisingly similar systems on track driven cars, this was my first stab at hydraulic brakes on a bike.  I learned everything I needed from these three videos:

  • Magura's how-to video on cutting cables to length:
     
  • Magura's how-to video on bleeding lines:
     
  • Bleeding in depth by Magura's US Technical Service Manager.  A number of nice little tips in this

For tools, the only tool specific to this job is a cable cutter.  Since I already had a cutter for my wired brake lines I decided to give it a try since I already owned it and its a really nice cutter.  It worked fine so long as I took care to make straight cuts and made the cuts quick and with authority.

These are my cutters: https://goo.gl/7q1YKG 

The kits I purchased as described in Post #1 were straight from Magura.  The cables were thus from Magura and in each box were a single extra hose end and olive - so you have enough to do one cable resize without buying supplies.  These cables have an internal plastic (not wound stainless) liner and are 2.2mm in outside diameter.  They fit fine inside of the Sondors frame cable guides.

Speaking of supplies, to bleed brakes you need a bleed kit.  I bought this one: https://goo.gl/D6s6Or

This kit also has two extra hose ends and two olives, so stash those away for the future.  The kit also includes 4 ounces of 'royal blood' brake fluid, which is blue mineral oil.  I like working with this stuff MUCH MUCH better than with the usual DOT 5.1 brake fluid, which will eat paint on contact, among other things.  Never use DOT fluid with Magura brakes.  You get 4 oz of this fluid with the kit which is more than plenty.  You will use a lot of it to fill your bleed syringe, and run it up to the upper reservoir and back down again... and then squirt it back into the bottle, only a half ounce or less down from where you were.

I have bled automotive racing brakes countless times, both in my driveway and in the paddock at the race track.  The procedure for these brakes is effectively a glorified gravity bleed that I can do in my sleep.  

I still screwed it up.

I don't know how, but I managed to leave a bucket full of air in the front lines after my first bleed.  Now, I also did the stuff they tell you in the line-cutting video all wrong.  That bit about controlling the just-cut cables so they don't drip all over the place?  Yeah didn't get that quite right.  So lots of air in the re-sectioned lines and needed a bleed big time.  After the install and bleed I was only able to caress the front rotor rather than grip it.  Since the rears worked great (without bleeding at all... I'm a fast learner) I knew it wasn't my thinner-than-Magura-spec Avid rotors.  So I bled again and it was bubble city.  Rather than doing two cycles as recommended I did 4, and rather than doing that silly lever-snapping thing in the Magura vid, I used a small rubber mallet and whacked the caliper - something you do with racing brakes with a much bigger dead blow hammer to jog any bubbles loose inside.

Once that was done a second time, they worked great.  Mostly.  About those thin rotors... Magura naturally recommends you use only their rotors.  Of course they do.  But I didn't feel like buying additional rotors just yet.  Well, there is a reason Magura specifies their own rotors:  They are 2.1mm thick from the factory which is a fair bit thicker than just about everyone else.  Those rotors are out of spec once they reach 1.8mm.  My Avid rotors measured out to 1.25 to 1.45mm depending on which caliper measurement I believed.  I believe new they were around 1.8.  So rather than potentially cause a problem with overextended pistons (in cars this can be very bad, extending the pistons out past their seals, leaking fluid everywhere and maybe causing some crashing/dying), and seeing the Magura rotors are not very expensive as rotors go at about $25, I sprung for a 203 and a 180.

I am very much not a fan of airy rotors that are more holes than they are steel.  A rotor is a heat sink and heat sinks better into steel than it does into a hole where steel should be.  Most rotor makers go all ornamental on their rotors and make pretty patterns, resulting in a junk rotor straight out of the box.  The Magura Storm HC rotors meant to work with these brakes are functional and substantial.  With their added thickness, the brakes do grab a little harder.  So yes you can run with another manufacturer's rotors, but the brakes really do work better with the thicker rotors made to work with these brakes.

Odds and ends:  

Cabling - the 'e' in MT5e stands for ebike, and of course the brake levers have those wonderful matching red HIGO connectors.  I found that my existing custom dual-cutoff Y cables still worked with these brakes despite the fact that the cable length from the caliper is very short.  I just ran them a little differently and good to go.  They are not ideal and I will reach out to e-bike-technologies.de to make me a different set with lengths tailored to my setup (so Houshmand yes you're still getting the 'old' cables :-) ).  For regular folks with normal motor setups, you are going to need a simple brake extension cable.  That same web site that makes me my fancy Y extensions can sell you a simple straight extension so if you buy these brakes, do a test fit, figure out the length you need and report back here afterwards so people can know what length they need on a more normal system.

Bedding - Bedding brakes is something most people don't do in the automotive world and nobody does in the cycling world.  You need to do it.  Magura's recommendation is to go to a reasonably brisk speed and brake down to a crawl - never a stop! - and speed back up and repeat the cycle 20 times.  I don't think they were thinking about the speeds ebikes can accomplish, nor their weight, so I checked at 15 and the front rotor was uniformly blue-black and smoking ... as it should be.  Job done.  Now turn around and go home without using the brake you were bedding AT ALL to let it cool.  Do NOT stop along the way.  You want the rotor to cool gently without the caliper sitting over one spot for any amount of time (stopping will cause uneven cooling where the caliper is sitting and warp the rotor).  Do NOT use the brake you just bedded.  Use the other one (and by extension, do not bed both brakes at once).  It only takes about a mile of slow (PAS1) cruising back to cool that rotor off just fine.

Here's that formerly smoking rotor just as I arrived home from bedding it.  It is safe to touch and no longer quite so bluish black.  With use the discoloration will go away.

20170415_112904_1280.jpg 

And here's the levers after all said and done and I have adjusted their throw to lengths I like.  Notice how the front brake on the right is much further out than the left/rear?  If thats what you want you can have it with these brakes.   (edit: I brought them in closer after some time using them.  They are easily adjustable with a simple spin of a hex wrench.)

20170415_113235_1280.jpg

So... Thems the brakes.  Once I get the revised cable splitters in play I'll be happy to forget all about them and ride on.

Edited by MattRobertson
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UPDATE:

I corrected Post #1 given the information crossed out below.  Only keeping it struck-thru here for the sake of posterity.

I came across a factory Magura kit online that was a decent price, and included brake hoses.  On a whim I compared their EAN with the one from Holland Bike shop and they matched.  So I contacted Holland Bike shop and they responded that their kits include hoses despite the product page on their site that doesn't so state.

So... that lowers the price of brakes purchased thru Holland Bike Shop by $58.  With shipping that puts them at about the lowest price on the web even with international shipping.

BRAKE BLEEDING:

I finally bled my rear system just to do it, and got about two bubbles out of it.  Even with just that the levers now bite with less travel, letting me dial back the extension I had by a couple turns.  For the fronts, I was still not happy and decided to perform a different procedure than is recommended by the manufacturers.

  1. Leave the caliper on the bike.
  2. get everything ready because once this process starts oil is going to be dripping out of and onto things.  'get ready' means in part to get your lower syringe with the bleeder hose fully filled in advance, with the hose filled with fluid not air bubbles.  
  3. Loosen the lever on the handlebars and re-orient it so the brake reservoir is level to the ground
  4. Remove/open the top bleeder.  Since the bottom bleeder on the caliper is closed, nothing is going to be leaking out yet.  Attach the top syringe/reservoir.
  5. Open the bottom bleeder and haul ass to get the syringe screwed onto it.  I managed to get only a small dribble onto the caliper.  Tighten the syringe onto the bleeder with an 8mm wrench and make sure it is on tight.
  6. Do one cycle of bleeding, bottom to top and back to bottom, gently, to establish vacuum and  ensure you have a good setup and don't have any leaks or surprises.  Periodically tap the caliper and fluid reservoir in the lever with something firm like a *small* dead blow hammer (or the handles of your pliers) to help dislodge any stuck bubbles.
  7. With a full bottom syringe, push the fluid up through the system... hard this time.  Not enough to break the syringe or do something crazy, but enough so you can see the oil well up in a wave in the top syringe.  Do it as firmly as possible without breaking something.  On the return stroke back down, be gentle so you don't suck any air in via the edges of the top syringe seal.
  8. Repeat Step 7 until you no longer see tiny occasional streams of bubbles.  You can stop when fluid is in the bottom syringe, drained from the top syringe, with just a bit of fluid in the top syringe for the next step.
  9. Using the 8mm wrench, break the lower syringe loose and as soon as you are able, spin the thing off the bleeder.  Have the bleeder screw ready to pop back on asap because fluid will start dripping out immediately.  The little bit of fluid you left in the top syringe will keep the reservoir topped up unless you screw up and are too slow to get the bleeder bolt back on..
  10. Remove the top syringe and replace the cap screw, taking care not to overtighten ... its a plastic bolt and need to ONLY be snug (0.5nM, officially).

The above process got me a front brake lever that engaged with almost no travel.  The firm upstroke procedure found three small streams of bubbles that only sped out under firm pressure.

 

Edited by MattRobertson

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My son's Stealth has MT5, and they're very powerful. I can tell a big difference even between them, and the MT2 on my older Stealth. The only thing I don't like about them is the price of pads. He makes me buy them for him, and they cost twice as much as mine.

I estimate MT2 are about the same as my Storm Shimano brakes.

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Yeah looks like I am going to wind up paying around $26-$28 per set.  I am going to go with the 4-pad set of base level organic pads.  I can get the two-pad versions for I think $19.  But I like the idea of 4-pistons and 4 independent pads.

I realized on my ride into work today that these brakes are *totally* silent.  You read from the downhillers how fantastic their modulation is, so I have been trying to take advantage of that by doing as much gentle braking in advance of stoplights as I can, trying to never lean on them.  while gliding up to a light this morning I realized I was hearing *nothing* from them.  Not pad noise, not rotor rubbing while riding.  Bupkis.  Or actually I take that back.  I heard online that Magura brakes engaged make a 'blowing bubbles' sound and that is entirely true.  Not at all an unpleasant sound.  I'll leave the rest to the buyer to discover first hand. :-)

As I said I am sticking to the organic base level pads.  They stop great, they don't dust much which means they get up to temp easy, so far are easy on the rotors and they are freaking silent.  there are four grades of pads made for these brakes.

  1. Type 9.C:  'Comfort level'.  Bright blue metal backing plates.  These are a reduced-power braking pad that is mostly ceramic and meant to be quiet and gentle at the expense of stopping power.  they also have the longest life of all the pad types.
  2. Type 9.1: Black backing plates.  'base level 'organic' - what the brakes come with from the factory.  Supposedly a balance of performance and comfort.  (I know... brilliant analysis).
  3. Type 8.P: "Performance".  Black backing plates.  A little more aggressive pad material that Magura says will stop more aggressively and wear out a little more quickly
  4. Type 9.R: Race pads.  Copper-colored backing plates.  If they are anything like automotive race pads we are probably talking about lots of metal (Magura uses brass), lots of noise until they get up to temp and lots of grip.  Oh and also lots of money.  About $35 for a set (but only $27 at Holland Bike Shop).  

Type 9 pads are the 2-piece versions that come with the MT5 series.  

Type 8's are the 4-piece that come with MT7's and are compatible with MT5's so long as you get the crossbolts with the pads.  

Some compounds are available in both type 8 and 9.  In particular 8.1 and 9.1

 

EDIT:

Note that the Type 8 pads, in addition to offering one independent pad per independent piston, can be removed and replaced without removing and then by necessity re-adjusting the caliper.  Since these brakes essentially require zero adjustment over time, and it looks like pads need replacement every few months, the Type 8 pads are for sure my preference.

Edited by MattRobertson

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You just plug it into the existing connection.  Magura brakes use the same red HIGO mini connectors.  You need an extension because the Magura cables leading from the levers are shorter than the tektros that come with the Sondors.

You would purchase an extension from here:
https://e-bike-technologies.de/index.php/de/steckverbinder/higo/higo-steckverbinder

Follow the on-site instructions for adding an account and buying an extension.  You will have to determine cable length yourself as my configuration is unusual.  Please report back on your results so others can follow suit on their own projects.

good luck!

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Well its just under 3 months since my installation.  This morning - having heard from downhillers that they like to bleed every two months, I figured I would give mine a shot.

I didn't need to.  Not one bubble in front or rear.  I am riding 30 miles per day.  I'm using the brakes heavily - sometimes extremely if I am speeding towards an intersection at 30 mph and I miss the traffic light.  My bike with its dual motors and dual batteries is about 80 lbs before I load it up with panniers, their contents and my 230 lb self.

My braking is typically heavy on the rear with the fronts being secondary after the initial bite and drag from the rear.

So.. with that profile I was not particularly surprised to see that my rear pads are REALLY worn.  Worn out in fact and very close to the backing plates.  I'll know how much when my replacements arrive.  By coincidence I recently ordered a set of Type 8.1 pads just to have them in the bullpen.  Now it turns out I need them as soon as they get here next week.

The front pads still look quite good, but I am going to order another set of pads and pull these when they arrive just to be sure.  

Temperatures here have been north of 100 degrees fahrenheit all week.  110+ actually.  Possibly the ambient heat contributed to the pad wear.

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Agreed you can go Shimano hydros for a lot less money but I am glad I opted not to attempt to save money and went all out on the first try.  Buy once. Cry once. Crash never (fingers crossed).

Hollandbikeshop.com has the most consistently low prices and available inventory.  I found them from prices I saw quoted on E-S in a post from like 2014.  They've actually gone down a bit since then, probably due to exchange rate.  If buying brakesets from them, get your rotors there too as the prices are same as US Ebay vendors and shipping is a fixed cost you are already paying.

I went with EBay myself for the brakesets because the seller I found was Fast'N'Free which meant I paid about another $20 or so and I had my brakesets literally in a couple of days.  I judged that worth it.  That link above still has that one brakeset available but that doesn't make a lot of sense if thats all there is available at that price.

Since I didn't commit to rotors immediately, my rotor choices aren't grouped in the first post, which I will fix (along with fixing the cable discussion which I discovered down the road).  You want the Magura Storm HC which is the max duty rotor - the Storm SL is the ultra lightweight version that doesn't fit our application.  If buying rotors alone EBay is the way to go. 365cycles typically has the best price and fastest delivery.  Overstock deals happen as well on occasion.  365cycles had a lot of about 30 180mm Storm HC rotors they were selling for $18 each.

The bleeder kit you can go either way.  HBS apparently does not sell the 'mini-bleed kit' I got for $28 on EBay but they do sell a 'Magura Service Kit' which has a few more cable ends and bits.  However it is not Magura-branded and you need an upper syringe that fits *perfectly* in the lever reservoir or air will work its way into the bleed process.  Worth the gamble?  Probably.  Not something I need to worry about fortunately.

 

Edited by MattRobertson

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Yeah OK, I'm revisiting another old thread...  Hey, shoot me!  

So Matt, circa a year on (to the day) do you still have a "love in" for these brakes?  I assume yes, coz they look like a serious bitta kit, but one thing I wanna to ask.  Do you have four pots back and front? 

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I'll answer your questions in order:

1. Yes I do.  In fact I have standardized on them (and 203mm rotors front and rear) for my bike builds and just bought my third set today.  My first set was bought from a Magura dealer for about $250 as detailed above.  My second set came from a bike shop in Germany who was selling new, pre-bled take-offs.  Cost me about $185.  My third set came from bike-discount.de - a German discount bike parts web site - assumedly these are also new take-offs - and the pair ran me about $175 plus a bit of shipping I diluted by buying some other stuff from them.  However they are selling 'front brakes' which means I will need a long cable I will have to refit myself.  Fine I have one in my spare parts pile but Rose Bikes in Germany is the best place to buy them and avoid the near $50 Fleabay price of the cable.  Insofar as stopping is concerned they are stellar.  Rotors are top-drawer and pads are reasonable (Rose sells them for 1/3 of the common Fleabay price and the ship to the US is fine if you load up on other goodies - all of it cheaper than USA sellers).

2. Yes 4-pots all around.  Magura does sell a non-ebike friendly downhill-oriented set of brakes that is 2-piston front and 4-piston rear ... or vice-versa.  Not my cup of tea so I never considered it more than a curiosity.

On another bike I put on a set of 2-piston MT4's which were cheap (take-offs again) and well-suited to the 350-watt hub motor on that bike insofar as not having cutoffs is not a big deal at closer to stock power levels.  Those are a great option for bikes kept reasonably stock.  At the kind of power levels a lot of us are running - 48v+ and hi amps on the controller(s) - not such a great idea.

Bike-discount.de is probably the lowest-cost place to buy MT5e's new-in-box now.  About $112 per axle.  For just a little more, U.S. buyers should still consider 365 Cycles on Fleabay... Great FastNFree seller.  Stay away from Bells Bike Shop  online... they typically undercut the lowest web price by two cents but have nothing in stock and order product when you buy it.  Expect LONG waits

Lastly... After a few years of being the price leader, Hollandbikeshop.com no longer sells the MT5e's.  So disregard mention of them above.

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Cheers Matt!

 

FYI for anyone that comes later...

I contacted hollandbikeshop.com (prior to reading your reply) as I thought it might have been nothing more than a type'o in a URL or some such thing, that had rendered the brakes unavailable to the public.  Seeing as they seem to carry quite a bit of the Magura product range.  

So, for those of us that have keenly followed @MattRobertson and this project of his, you can still get the lever from Holland, but not the whole assembly.    To cryptic?  In a nutshell, no good unless you already have the brakes and ONLY! need a replacement lever:  https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=MT5e

Past that, as Matt has already pointed out, the cheapest option (at the time of this post) is bike-discount.de  Which incidentally, is well worth keeping an eye on, as should you be looking at this as your next modification, they seem to have some discounted take off front MT5e's (when I bought mine) so well.... BARGAIN!  Circa half the regular price at £63.42 per axle.  Or $90 USD before you take off the 20% VAT and presumably add it back on again for shipping!???? 

 

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My bike-discount.de sourced MT5e brakes got here and they look great.   looks like a good source for others as long as the inventory holds up.  @Marco the prices they quote already exclude VAT.  Still the best web price to USA customers when you work everything in.

Saw that Holland only has the levers.  I considered buying those for my MT4s on Frankenbike to take advantage of the cutoffs, but the lever costs so much - even when you buy only the blade and not the entire assembly - that it makes no fiscal sense.  Especially considering the existence of take-offs in retail that knock the price of the full brakeset waaay down.

 

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@MattRobertson Fine project Matt!

I will order the MT5e brakes for my Sondors X and I have to make the following information when ordering the brakes: The term "HIGO opener" or "HIGO closer". It refers to the built-in switch - one opens, the other closes the circuit. Here the drive manufacturer must provide information about which version is the right one.

I have changed the 250W motor to the Bafang RM G060.750.DC 07 (750W kit with controller).

Which one is the right one for the new 750W motor?:

HIGO opener (in German - "Ausführung mit HIGO Öffner NC")  or  HIGO closer (in German - "Ausführung mit HIGO Schliesser NO")??

 

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By the way, at $120.79 this is currently the best online price on MT5e's from this vendor, 365 Cycles:

https://ebay.us/IB6q2H

I have bought - I think - three sets of these to date *from this vendor* for various bikes I have built (add a couple more sets from bike-discount.de and the German bike shop guy... Karl Vom Kanal, if I remember coorectly.  So I have a bunch of them and essentially have standardized on one brakeset and one rotor size (205mm) so I only have to stock one set of spare parts across what is now a small fleet. 

Interestingly, that first set on my Sondors sprung a leak on the front caliper.  So I backtracked my purchase date and found a) I was within Magura's warranty and b) 365 Cycles was a certified Magura dealer.  So warranty claims honored.  I contacted them, they contacted Magura, I documented the problem to Magura's satisfaction and Magura sent me a replacement caliper, set of pads and even a rotor.  I did point out that a) the pads while contaminated were worn out anyway and b) the rotor was just below its 1.80 mm wear point, so Magura need just replace the caliper.  They very nicely sent me the works anyway.  FYI I did go to a fair bit of trouble to try and save the pads via the 90%+ alcohol and blowtorch method, and also worked hard to clean the rotor - all during the diagnosis phase of the problem.  My conclusion... don't waste your time.  Just buy new pads and spend the time you saved out riding.

Speaking of pads, Magura Type 8.P pads - the best for the MT5e - are quite pricey from USA sellers.  But Rose Bikes in Germany has them quite cheap.  As I mentioned, I have a small fleet of ebikes now and one set of common brake parts.  So I stocked up on 4 sets of pads for about $17.50 a set.

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/magura-8p-performance-disc-pads-for-mt5mt7-2652120

thats the place to go for pads.

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Presumably is still a caliper mount adapter for mounting the Magura MT5e (brake disc 203 mm) on my 
Sondors X (disc 160 mm) required?

Does the dealer know which adapter I need, or can you tell me which one to order?

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Just the standard lever.  No need to mess with anything that also mounts stuff like shifters.  I had a set of MT5e's that were take-offs that had the shifter mounts and if you get them, they will still work.  Just will have a fitting on them you won't need.  

The picture in the first post shows the std lever.

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